222446 Bullies, 4508 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 241 to 250 of 417
Page 25 of 42 FirstFirst ... 152122232425 2627282935 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,487

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 1:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nutcracker, sweet View Post
    I don't bother trying to correct this mistake, gun control advocates misuse the term on purpose, I think.
    I dunno, gun control advocates often have a level of ignorance about firearms that's hard to fake.
  2. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,487

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 1:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sick of you arrogant gun-loving rednecks with your 30 chip magazines!
  3. Devil is online now
    Devil's Avatar

    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,540

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 1:42pm

    supporting member
     

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	barrel shroud.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	25.7 KB 
ID:	14220
  4. ChuckWepner is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Chicago / Michigan
    Posts
    391

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 1:59pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Swollen Elf Goon View Post
    "Further, the chance that large numbers of guns in the schools not in the control of trained, experienced professionals will lead to accidental shootings, gun thefts by students, use of the guns by teachers in confrontations with students, or other problems has to be taken into account. And as Arthur L. Kellermann (M.D., M.P.H.), et al., found in their study, "Injuries and Deaths Due to Firearms in the Home," published in the Journal of Trauma 45 (1998): 263-267, in their sample set, among people who injured or killed someone with a gun that they kept in their home, 48% of the shootings were attempted or successful suicides, 30% were homicides, attempted homicides, or assaults with a deadly weapon, 18% were accidental shootings, and 4% were self-defense or justifiable homicides or attempted homicides."

    This study was based upon a survey of 4500 homes, and subjected to much-refuted statistical manipulation to achieve results Kellerman admitted were political. Furthermore, his extrapolated risks never correlated to actual data, and as such even the CDC will not use his data or methods.

    Kellermen's method also received criticism for including guns brought into the home by the criminal in question as a "gun in the home." IE, a murder breaks in with a gun, therefore you have a gun in the home.

    "The authors reported that among those 438 assaultive gunshot woundings, 49 involved a gun 'kept in the home where the shooting occurred,' 295 involved a gun brought to the scene from elsewhere, and another 94 involved a gun whose origins were not noted by the police."

    "there were significant differences between the study participants and the control. There was a 30% difference between home ownership vs renting between subjects and control, and a 15% difference in living alone or not. Only 48% of the control subjects were interviewed in person. Never mind that there were more users of illicit drugs, alcoholics, and persons with a history of violence in the households of the case subjects than in the households of the controls."

    As refuted:
    Kellermann admits to the political goal of his work, saying "People should be strongly discouraged from keeping guns in their homes." ("Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home," New England Journal of Medicine, Oct. 1993.) Anti-gun groups have seized upon his most recent attempt in this regard, a "study" from which the bogus "22 times more likely" risk-benefit ratio is derived. ("Injuries and Deaths Due to Firearms in the Home," Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection and Critical Care, Aug. 1998.) The study suffers numerous flaws common to previous Kellermann efforts, including the fact that it is a very small-scale survey of sample jurisdictions that are not representative of the country or even of one another.

    Most significant, though, Kellermann severely understates defensive uses of guns, by counting only those in which criminals are killed or injured. Dr. Edgar A. Suter, writing in the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia, explains the error in the context of an earlier Kellermann study, which compared family member deaths to killings of criminals:

    "The true measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected—not the burglar or rapist body count. Since only 0.1% to 0.2% of defensive gun usage involves the death of the criminal, any study, such as this, that counts criminal deaths as the only measure of the protective benefits of guns will expectedly underestimate the benefits of firearms by a factor of 500 to 1,000." ("Guns in the Medical Literature—A Failure of Peer Review," March 1994, p. 134.)

    Similarly, criminologist Gary Kleck notes, "More commonly, guns are merely pointed at another person, or perhaps referred to or displayed, and this sufficient to accomplish the ends of the user." (Targeting Guns, Aldine de Gruyter, 1997, p. 162.) Kleck's 1995 landmark survey of defensive gun uses found guns used for protection as many as 2.5 million times annually, a number much smaller, obviously, than the number of criminals killed or wounded. ("Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995.)

    Kellermann's "22 times more likely" study suffers yet another flaw: only 14.2% of criminal gun-related homicides and assaults he surveyed involved guns kept in the homes where the crimes occurred. With a similar sloppiness in his "43 times more likely" study, suicides (never shown to correlate to gun ownership) accounted for the overwhelming majority of gun-related family member deaths he pretended to compare to defensive gun uses.
    I see a lot of criticism of Kellermann et al's study here, but I don't see any evidence as to what the actual numbers of successful uses of guns for self-defense vs. unsuccessful attempts, accidents, misuse, etc., are (apart from what looks to be a pulled it out of his ass 500-1000 successful gun threats for every successful shooting estimate by one doctor; does he have data on inappropriate gun threats for comparison?).

    Do you know of better data from refereed sources on the rate of successful use of guns in self-defense vs. use in homicides / suicides / assaults / accidental shootings? That's what I'd really like to see.
  5. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Dayville, Connecticut, United States
    Posts
    4,286

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 2:03pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Swollen Elf Goon View Post
    Sigh.

    *A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[19]

    * A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]

    * A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

    34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
    40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
    69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]
    * A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[130]

    * According to the CDC, there were about 18,498 gun-related accidents that resulted in death or an emergency room visit during 2001[131] (the earliest year such data is available from the CDC[132]). This is roughly 27 times lower than the CDC's 1994 estimate for the number of times Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes.[133]

    *Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]
    Did you miss this one?
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  6. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Dayville, Connecticut, United States
    Posts
    4,286

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 2:06pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So we have 498,000-989,000 successful uses of a gun to prevent crime (annually) versus:

    9355 (2010) annual gun murders and about 16,000 gun suicides, and (2010) 556 accidental deaths (mostly hunters/hunting related).

    plus: * Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders.[13] [14] [15] Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.[16]
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  7. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Dayville, Connecticut, United States
    Posts
    4,286

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 2:09pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    ^^^????

    Cullion is a one-man lemon party.

    You sure you want to make that claim?
    ewwwww.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  8. DarkPhoenix is offline
    DarkPhoenix's Avatar

    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hicksville, NY
    Posts
    2,243

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 2:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, JJJ, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    Also, a "30 clip magazine." lol. I missed that one the first time through. The **** is a 30 clip magazine? This **** just highlights the absurdity of these ignorami attempting to have an intelligent discussion about something they don't understand. It's like tribesmen from the amazon trying to have an intelligent discussion about airline safety.

    Reminds me of Carolyn "Barrel Shroud" McCarthy.
    30 clip mag is the Holey Grail. That is a 300 rd mag that goes on the end of your shotgun, making it fully auto, silenced, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. And yes, "Holey" as in holes left by these magical armour piercing slugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    BJJ JOE: I'm going to make hate to you. Right here, right now.
    ... Ohhhhhhhh, I'm going to make hate to you so hard that your kinfolk back in Africa will feel it.l
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer
    Karate is the Dane Cook of martial arts
  9. DarkPhoenix is offline
    DarkPhoenix's Avatar

    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hicksville, NY
    Posts
    2,243

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 2:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, JJJ, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Smells View Post
    How about biometric safety catches?

    We have the technology surely?
    No, that doesn't come as part of the package. That would defeat the purpose of what every gun owner will eventually do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    BJJ JOE: I'm going to make hate to you. Right here, right now.
    ... Ohhhhhhhh, I'm going to make hate to you so hard that your kinfolk back in Africa will feel it.l
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer
    Karate is the Dane Cook of martial arts
  10. patfromlogan is offline
    patfromlogan's Avatar

    Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hilo Island of Hawaii
    Posts
    8,844

    Posted On:
    12/19/2012 3:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    0
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    Also, a "30 clip magazine." lol. I missed that one the first time through. The **** is a 30 clip magazine? This **** just highlights the absurdity of these ignorami attempting to have an intelligent discussion about something they don't understand. It's like tribesmen from the amazon trying to have an intelligent discussion about airline safety.

    Reminds me of Carolyn "Barrel Shroud" McCarthy.
    Sorry for not knowing gun talk. I own a 12 gage, a thirty-aught-six, and a pump pellet, for killing upland game and ducks, deer, and wild chickens. So I take it that my language isn't correct. So I'll put it in other terms,

    PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT SELF DEFENSE USE OF THEM GUNS THAT SHOOT LOTS OF AMMO*.


    You are the one who wrote about taking out a mob.

    I'm just wondering this, as one of the kids had 9 bullets in her body I heard. I obviously don't know the technology, but that seems like the killer was shooting rather quickly.

    *military-style semi-automatic assault rifles and high capacity ammunition clips?
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 12/19/2012 3:45pm at .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.