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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 2:19pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let's get a few facts correct. The gun laws worked concerning this incident. Yes, this is a fact.

    We have functional mental health policies. Then again, as most people do who don't know what they are talking about, you think that's a fix. It isn't. To enforce ANY mental health policy, especially concerning guns, people would have to release their medical records.

    That will not happen. People are more worried about their medical and school records than their credit or bank statements.
  2. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 2:23pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    You could have asked instead of assuming I'm an anti-gun pinko-commie-european*
    I was mocking your "entire nation" comment, you know just like "European" is used to lump all you guys together?
    Firearms are a pretty divisive topic in the US and laws vary widely state to state.
    Of course, many people are quite happy with the status quo, because they realize the relative risk is miniscule and that the rights we have are worth protecting.


    Let's leave the obesity thing aside for a moment.
    ...ok, for a moment...


    Well, regarding schools, I'm more favorable to use trained personnel than hoping for the packing maths teacher will save the day.
    Ok so if you're going to focus on school massacres and firearm attacks in particular(?), you're talking an even smaller piece of the pie.
    Firearm deaths > firearm murders > firearm mass killings > firearm school massacres.

    We have 3 times(est) as many flu related deaths annually, as are murdered with firearms.
    The fucking flu.
    ...and that's compared to firearm murders, not school shootings.
    ...and obesity kills 3 times that. (only a moment)






    And, for society at large, to pay more attention to mental health problems.
    Agreed.



    *european is the only word that is true in my case.
    I have a Danish personnummer, so i think i'm supposed to have the pinko-commie part covered.
  3. Zerstörer90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 2:24pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Let's get a few facts correct. The gun laws worked concerning this incident. Yes, this is a fact.

    We have functional mental health policies. Then again, as most people do who don't know what they are talking about, you think that's a fix. It isn't. To enforce ANY mental health policy, especially concerning guns, people would have to release their medical records.

    That will not happen. People are more worried about their medical and school records than their credit or bank statements.
    Agreed. To an extent. It could be something as simple as requiring people to get a Psych. Evaluation 30-90 days (or something) before purchasing a firearm.

    Also, Iif is right here. Even this wouldn't have prevented what happened. He stole his mother's guns. His mother was probably not as crazy as him. The issue in this particular case, in my honest opinion, is proper gun storage and safety.

    As I said earlier, in an ideal situation, the guns would have been stored in biometric safes that only the mother could have opened. Especially if there was someone in the house who might be off their rocker a little.
  4. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 2:29pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    That will not happen. People are more worried about their medical and school records than their credit or bank statements.
    Around here a psychological evaluation is required to get (and renew) a firearm license. This reduces the number of crazy people armed.
  5. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 2:37pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Let's get a few facts correct. The gun laws worked concerning this incident. Yes, this is a fact.

    We have functional mental health policies. Then again, as most people do who don't know what they are talking about, you think that's a fix. It isn't. To enforce ANY mental health policy, especially concerning guns, people would have to release their medical records.

    That will not happen. People are more worried about their medical and school records than their credit or bank statements.


    I agree with all of this, but it should be noted that HIPAA allows for
    a covered entity to disclose PHI, including psychotherapy notes, when the covered entity has a good faith belief that the disclosure: (1) is necessary to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to the health or safety of the patient or others and (2) is to a person(s) reasonably able to prevent or lessen the threat. This may include, depending on the circumstances, disclosure to law enforcement, family members, the target of the threat, or others who the covered entity has a good faith belief can mitigate the threat.
    http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa...hipaa/520.html

    Obviously this would not help where someone is simply making a purchase and would have to volunteer information.
    I just thought it bears noting that health care professionals can speak up under certain circumstances.
  6. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 2:37pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    You won't own a gun, ok, but what about a trimmed Kalashnikov?

    You guys can't resist a golden Kalashnikov... Also how will you shoot in weddings and Ramadan? (let alone if you see a jew...).
    Jew have a good point.

    Alright, alright, just that one gun.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 2:41pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstörer90 View Post
    Agreed. To an extent. It could be something as simple as requiring people to get a Psych. Evaluation 30-90 days (or something) before purchasing a firearm.
    Nope, we will disagree on this part. We have TOO many medications that mask crazy. So, now you'd have to add a blood test. Your medical records need to be open. Then there is a record of your mental stability or instability, medication and help you received. Also, I want to see his medical records. It's funny how his "crazy" has become worse. Go look at the early interviews, he was a goth, that had a group of friends, and was in a club.

    Now, he is a an autistic, Asperger’s having lunatic that must have just went crazy.

    Also, Iif is right here. Even this wouldn't have prevented what happened. He stole his mother's guns. His mother was probably not as crazy as him.
    Her guns were registered and legal. That follows the law.
    When her son went to buy a gun, HIMSELF, he was denied.

    The gun laws, concerning that state, were followed and did the proper job.

    The issue in this particular case, in my honest opinion, is proper gun storage and safety.
    We need more information. We have no clue what happened and how he gained access to the guns. Oh and no matter what they say, I do not believe they will tell the truth.

    What if she was cleaning them?
    What if she was putting them in the safe?
    What if she was taking them out of the safe.
    What if he learned the combination?
    What if she just came back from the range?
    What if he tricked her into opening the safe?

    I need more information before I agree with any "what if" concerning how and why he had access to those guns.
  8. Zerstörer90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 2:58pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Nope, we will disagree on this part. We have TOO many medications that mask crazy. So, now you'd have to add a blood test. Your medical records need to be open. Then there is a record of your mental stability or instability, medication and help you received. Also, I want to see his medical records. It's funny how his "crazy" has become worse. Go look at the early interviews, he was a goth, that had a group of friends, and was in a club.

    Now, he is a an autistic, Asperger’s having lunatic that must have just went crazy.
    Yea, I was wondering about that too. He seemed like a geeky kid who got picked on a lot at first. Now they are painting him to be some kind of deranged maniac...

    I'm pretty sure when you see a psychiatrist or psychologist, that they are given access to your medical records and especially to any psychiatric medications you would be on. Not 100% on that though.

    Her guns were registered and legal. That follows the law.
    When her son went to buy a gun, HIMSELF, he was denied.

    The gun laws, concerning that state, were followed and did the proper job.
    Agreed. This is why I've been arguing the entire time that gun control is a non-issue in this particular case. Perhaps if there was something that red flagged her buying a gun when her son was denied, for whatever reason?

    We need more information. We have no clue what happened and how he gained access to the guns. Oh and no matter what they say, I do not believe they will tell the truth.

    What if she was cleaning them?
    What if she was putting them in the safe?
    What if she was taking them out of the safe.
    What if he learned the combination?
    What if she just came back from the range?
    What if he tricked her into opening the safe?

    I need more information before I agree with any "what if" concerning how and why he had access to those guns.
    These caveats came to mind after I posted... you are probably right that we won't get the truth about this... which kind of sucks.
  9. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 3:19pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstörer90 View Post
    Yea, I was wondering about that too. He seemed like a geeky kid who got picked on a lot at first. Now they are painting him to be some kind of deranged maniac...
    To be fair, we always get really shoddy and incorrect early reports with "big" stories like this. I'd like to claim media bias, but really, it's probably just sacrificing QA for being first with the news.
  10. NeilG is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 3:51pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstörer90 View Post
    Yea, I was wondering about that too. He seemed like a geeky kid who got picked on a lot at first. Now they are painting him to be some kind of deranged maniac...
    I think they should paint him as nothing. It would be unenforcable but I'd love to see a universal publication ban on the name or any details whatsoever of these nutbars. Might cut down on the motivation to go down in flames famously when nobody is allowed to know who you are.

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