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  1. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 5:49pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    Which brings us to another reason foreigners resent American gun owners in addition to feeling like they're the short guy in the room. It makes us happy, and they don't like us to be happy about something they can't have.
    *looks toward cupboard containing perfectly-legal-in-Canada properly-locked 10-ga. and 3-ought, along with separately-stored shells and rounds*

    ****. I can't have these?

    Um, uh-oh...
  2. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 5:59pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    I don't understand your question.
    You wrote there are more reasonable and effective responses available. What are you waiting to implement them?

    This is not the first nor the second massacre of this kind in your country. What do you need for these more reasonable and effective measures available to be adopted? Another one? Three more?
  3. submessenger is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 6:05pm

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    For those interested in seeing more gun control in America, I'm curious if you're also as vociferously interested in better knife control in China. Attacks on schoolchildren seem to happen frequently, there, and they don't always survive:
    In 2010, a total of 18 children were killed in four separate attacks. On March 23 of that year, Zheng Minsheng attacked children at an elementary school in Fujian Province, killing eight.

    One month later, just a few hours after Zheng Minsheng was executed for his crime, another man, Chen Kanbing wounded 16 students and a teacher in a knife attack at another primary school in Fujian. The following month, on May 12, a man named Wu Huangming killed seven children and two adults with a meat cleaver at a kindergarten in Shaanxi Province. That attack was followed by an August 4 assault by Fang Jiantang, who killed three children and one teacher with a knife at a kindergarten in Shandong Province.

    In 2011, a young girl and three adults were killed with an axe at an elementary school in Henan Province by a 30-year-old man named Wang Hongbin, and eight children were hurt in Shanghai after an employee at a child care center attacked them with a box cutter.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-...es-23-injured/
    Like I said, evil is intent; implementation is just gory details.
  4. Dickhead is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 6:11pm


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    Nafron, what qualifies someone as a "suburban Rambo" in your opinion?
    Last edited by Dickhead; 12/17/2012 6:20pm at .
  5. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 6:13pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    You wrote there are more reasonable and effective responses available. What are you waiting to implement them?

    This is not the first nor the second massacre of this kind in your country. What do you need for these more reasonable and effective measures available to be adopted? Another one? Three more?
    Sure, let's tackle obesity first as it's a far greater threat than firearms.
    Did you read my links?
    Mass killings are down, as are violent crimes in general.
    We are at a 40 year low for violent crime.
    The largest school massacre in US history was nearly 100 years ago, and no one was shot.
  6. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 6:15pm


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    A Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    You wrote there are more reasonable and effective responses available. What are you waiting to implement them?

    This is not the first nor the second massacre of this kind in your country. What do you need for these more reasonable and effective measures available to be adopted? Another one? Three more?
    I doubt he really has any ideas in mind. Without airport level crazy, I would like to see single point access through office to schools with a 911 button. It seems like there is tons of access points to schools and a open door policy in affect even when the actual policy is supposed to be check in and get a badge. I would stop there because you can't make the world perfectly safe.
  7. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 6:52pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    Having met some people who belonged to a modern, organized, local militia, I recognize this as a loaded question...

    That said, regarding the US legal definition of a "militia":
    US v. Miller (1939) -

    See: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&linkurl=<%LINKURL%>&graphu rl=<%GRAPHURL%>&court=US&case=/data/us/153/535.html

    Lots of Gun Control advocates like to emphasize the "well-regulated militia" language in the 2nd Amendment. The resulting argument is that the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee individuals the right to keep and bear arms, but rather that the amendment guarantees some sort of "collective right" in the militia. The counter to this argument is that the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments and specifically the first eight or nine, was intended to protect the rights of individuals -- such as freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, rights to due process, trial by jury, etc...

    The context of the Second Amendment would strongly suggest that the right to bear arms is another individual right. And, it could be argued, that as the right is linked to the ability of individuals to form a militia, the intent seems to be that citizens have access to military-type weapons! The Second Amendment says nothing about guaranteeing the right to own weapons sufficient to hunt.

    The AR-type rifle used in this massacre is the most popular rifle in the US right now. (And BTW, it is used for hunting in some places.) Thousands of them are owned privately. How many of them were used for evil on Friday? I don't have numbers, but I suspect it was less than 1%. Now, compare that to the number of rifles that were used responsibly that day. Yes, some gun owners are... quirky; but they are a generally a responsible bunch.
    Let me be clearer, governmental gun control is doomed to failure. My loaded question was not that the individual shouldn't have guns or that gun owners that aren't a part of a militia are illegal, but that the individual with guns should be part of a well regulated militia. I make this distinction for a reason, that being I believe there are responsible gun owners in the majority. Wouldn't a well regulated militia of citizens far and wide allow the security of the state by ensuring that everyone with a gun knows and is trained for events such as this. So that were something to kick off, the "first responders" would be the citizen with a gun in the vicinity, instead of the 5-10-20 minute first responding police unit?

    There was a comment by someone over in my neck of the woods who claimed that if the principal had a gun and shot the guy, then what was to stop the police from taking out the principal? In my opinion, were the principal a trained member of a local militia, the moment police were on the scene, their training would be such that they would not be the hot headed guy still wielding his pistol when the police barged in, that they would take steps to ensure they weren't the victim of a further tragedy, in that they would identify themselves, the actions that they had taken and that their weapon was now not a threat by some sort of method ensuring that they were not a threat, either by laying in the prone position with their weapon at arms length. IF they had engaged the shooter, they would be expected to be arrested and charged, but with innocence and the law on their side, they would not and should not be afraid of the police.

    Granted, this has various kinks, but that is my reasoning due to the fact that there is no fucking way guns are being "controlled" in the USA.


    I don't have a good answer to the problem of violence in America. But I do know the answer isn't to blame inanimate objects. A gun lying on a table could sit there for a hundred years, it will do nothing until somone picks it up and pulls the trigger. The problem is with the black hearts of some men, and our lack of care of the disturbed and despairing. And yes, I think the 24-hour news cycle only glorifies these tragedies. People intent on doing harm will find a way to do it.
    Guns should not be lying on a table anywhere. I understand there are laws that are in place to ensure that guns are in a safe, or some such, would it be safe to say that a well regulated militia would have its own rules and regulations regarding weapons that the individual controls?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Ups to Battlefields for dropping the sage wisdom.

    You are like a Pimp Yoda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    Battlefields... You're more of a man than I am.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 6:54pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nutcracker, sweet View Post
    For those interested in seeing more gun control in America, I'm curious if you're also as vociferously interested in better knife control in China. Attacks on schoolchildren seem to happen frequently, there, and they don't always survive:


    Like I said, evil is intent; implementation is just gory details.
    Psst:
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Yeah in that one. We like shooting people they like stabbing:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-in-China.html

    Make note that the article references many incidents that happened within a month.
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomTriangle View Post
    You don't need a gun to hurt children if you really want to.


    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ck-school.html


    im not saying that incident was AS bad, just saying where there is a will there is a way
    Keep up, you lazy ****.
  9. submessenger is online now
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    Transmaniacon MC

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 6:57pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Psst:


    Keep up, you lazy ****.
    Dude, you're so far ahead we can't see you. Slow down a bit.
  10. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 7:20pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Sure, let's tackle obesity first as it's a far greater threat than firearms.
    WTF?
    Did you read my links?
    I'm at it.
    Mass killings are down, as are violent crimes in general.
    And this is because?
    We are at a 40 year low for violent crime.
    Have you heard about crack?
    The largest school massacre in US history was nearly 100 years ago, and no one was shot.
    How many happened since then?

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