New IJF rule changes

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 11:12am

Originally Posted by Your_Majesty

By your viewpoint, since you neither street fight regularly, nor do any self defense oriented martial art, you have no business making factual statements about the use of your skills in something that you don't train for.

If you made any comment about a BJJ rule, I would just point out that X will result in Y instead of trying to act like an expert in using BJJ for self-defense as my self-defense training is limited to some classes oriented for that per year and zero bar brawls, which I doubt you even have the equivalent in your Judo class.

nice try, but we were talking about IJF judo rules, and you wanted to look like some sort of expert. i pointed out that you were talking out your ass, and you got upset about it.

you're still acting like an ignorant tool, you might want to work on that.

**thp** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 7:24pm

ok, getting back to the original topic... are there any Judoka out there that are totally on board with the increased restrictions on the legs? I just think it really stinks and is bad for the sport.

**BKR** · Posted On: 12/31/2012 3:06pm

Originally Posted by thp

ok, getting back to the original topic... are there any Judoka out there that are totally on board with the increased restrictions on the legs? I just think it really stinks and is bad for the sport.

I'm not, that's for sure. I think the current rules were working pretty well. I'm not sue where the IJF is coming from with the "test" on total restriction. To me, it's too much. The bent over leg diving is pretty much gone from what I can tell. And that was really more of a problem at the IJF level anyway, not at local/regional/or even national level in the USA or Canada (from my observations, at least).

I'm not convinced that a total ban on hand-to-leg attacks will be permanent (yet). Certainly it would make refereeing easier (a total ban), removing ambiguity in hand to leg attacks. But Judo is for the judoka, not the referees.

To me, just penalizing "bad" posture should have been enough to solve the original problem, but even with only 3-5 seconds (an effing eternity in a fast paced match), a diving "safe attack" at the legs could be made, and in some cases a score resulted, especially with the reduced standard for ippon.

Wait and see is about all we can do at this point.

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 12/31/2012 3:12pm

REgarding all the stuff about grip fighting, self defense, etc., the main thing is that if you study Judo long enough and internalize the core principles, gripping the clothing becomes really not necessary, especially in non-judo situations. The main problem with Judo as SD, and I mean civilian unarmed SD, not LEO DT, military, etc., is the lack of striking traiing, mainly how to AVOID getting hit...developing the reactions to slip, block, etc blows.

My experience with striking training was that it took a while to develop those reactions. AS I had been doing Judo for many years at the time, it was easy to use the Judo I knew, harder to avoid getting socked in the nose and elsewhere. Once I developed (and I've lost that training due to misuse, BTW) the reactions, it was hard NOT to start throwing people in sparring, because the striking movements led pretty naturally to closing and throwing.

So the whole issue of having to grip clothing to throw is moot for anyone who can really do Judo. The gripping of clothing is really a distraction/red herring.

Ben

**1point2** · Posted On: 1/04/2013 12:17am

During randori tonight:

Partner got a high collar grip, I strip it with two hands. Curses.
I hit kouchigari, but need to grab their ankle to finish it. Damn.
I hit a legit omoplata sweep on a third (?) dan who's as big as a bear and twice as strong. This had nothing to do with the rule changes, but it was awesome.

What I'm saying is that I do not think these rule changes will go well for 1point2. However, I agree 100% with NeilG with regards to the positive changes: bigger throws for ippon, and you can't roll out of bounds to escape my chokes, pins, and armbars.

**BKR** · Posted On: 1/07/2013 6:55pm

Originally Posted by 1point2

During randori tonight:

Partner got a high collar grip, I strip it with two hands. Curses.
I hit kouchigari, but need to grab their ankle to finish it. Damn.
I hit a legit omoplata sweep on a third (?) dan who's as big as a bear and twice as strong. This had nothing to do with the rule changes, but it was awesome.

What I'm saying is that I do not think these rule changes will go well for 1point2. However, I agree 100% with NeilG with regards to the positive changes: bigger throws for ippon, and you can't roll out of bounds to escape my chokes, pins, and armbars.

I quit trying to strip the high collar quite a while ago. On a strong person, it's nearly impossible to do, especially if he/she knows how to grip correctly. I put more of a premium now on how to use the grip against the person or neutralize the grip via movement/posture or avoiding getting caught with it in the first place.

A lot of guys go for the high collar (setting the "power hand" in some places) first. Which is not so bad if they do not get another hand on you first or control of the other side of your body along with the high collar grip.

The ankle grabbing stuff I struggled with for sure, as Kouchi Gari was a specialty of mine and taking the ankle or knee was often a big part of the sequence. If you are going to compete, and the rules really end up with an all out ban on hand to lower body, you'll have to just train without the hand assist until you quit doing it.

I'm jonesing to train, think I'll head to the dojo to work out with the junior class tonight, senior class tomorrow.

Ben

**Lanner Hunt** · Posted On: 1/11/2013 10:27pm

I'm new enough to Judo (I started late 2011) that I came into it when leg attacks were already restricted (based on the 2010 rules). That being said, I really don't like the idea of ANY attack below the belt (with the hands) being a hansoku-make. Not only did my school engage in a lot of training with various combinations using leg grabs, there are a couple students who really focused on that as sort of their go-to strategy. I just don't like the idea of restricting the number of strategies that one can focus on when training.

The two-handed gripping rule especially made my coach furious, as we devoted a lot of time to grip-training and two handed grip-removals were a fairly large part of that. Seeing that a couple of the responses in this thread have said that using to hands to remove a grip is pretty risky, that one might actually be for the best. I'm not sure, I'm not really at a level where I could say.

I agree wholeheartedly with the new osaekomi rules. I'm a fairly thin/light guy, and osaekomi is easily the hardest way for me to win in newaza.

**judoratt** · Posted On: 1/11/2013 11:45pm

There are some rules I realy like, a few I don't. But it realy doesn't matter, we are already working on grips and the new rules.

**vladoshi** · Posted On: 1/17/2013 6:14am

Originally Posted by Just Guess

I have to disagree on the self defense part. Using both hands to break a grip is the most efficient and effective method to do so since it allows you to apply the maximum amount of force to overcome the gripping strength of an attacker. Being grabbed and controlled is something that needs to prevented or escaped from quickly in a self defense situation.

The only rules I disagree with are the grip breaking rule and making leg grabs illegal in all cases, which are just silly. I like the raised standard of ippon and allowing continuation of newaza techniques if the competitors move out of bounds.

Too right. Intuitive and practical. Muay Thai grappling uses 2 hands to break grip. It stops the hits to come. There is no time or balance for the opponent to hit you because they are working to stop being spun sideways. Judo keeps drifting further and further from a respected, solid defence method. I have old Kray Twin biographies noting the respect criminal hard men had for the practitioners. How great would Gene leBell be considered today? But thats enough high horsing about. Did they make "turtle" equivalent to held yet? That would force players to be play harder.

Can anyone confirm if there is an organisation trying to reintroduce all techniques as it was before changes for the 1964 Olympics?