New IJF rule changes

**Just Guess** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 3:56am

Originally Posted by Your_Majesty

The rules against grip fighting are good ones. Not only it is boring to watch from a common Joe viewpoint but it is also useless for self defense purposes as I would get hit on the face hard if I ever tried to grip fight so it is also good for the martial aspect of the art.

I have to disagree on the self defense part. Using both hands to break a grip is the most efficient and effective method to do so since it allows you to apply the maximum amount of force to overcome the gripping strength of an attacker. Being grabbed and controlled is something that needs to prevented or escaped from quickly in a self defense situation.

The only rules I disagree with are the grip breaking rule and making leg grabs illegal in all cases, which are just silly. I like the raised standard of ippon and allowing continuation of newaza techniques if the competitors move out of bounds.

**Your_Majesty** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 7:16am

Originally Posted by Just Guess

I have to disagree on the self defense part. Using both hands to break a grip is the most efficient and effective method to do so since it allows you to apply the maximum amount of force to overcome the gripping strength of an attacker. Being grabbed and controlled is something that needs to prevented or escaped from quickly in a self defense situation.

I was talking about this rule: "The referees should strictly penalize the contestants who do not engage in a quick Kumikata grip or who try not to be gripped by the opponent.", not grip breaking one. Grip fighting is almost useless in a SD situation. In SD you must get a hold of the enemy as fast as possible and grip fighting training do not add anything in a SD scenario.

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 11:34am

Originally Posted by Your_Majesty

I was talking about this rule: "The referees should strictly penalize the contestants who do not engage in a quick Kumikata grip or who try not to be gripped by the opponent.", not grip breaking one. Grip fighting is almost useless in a SD situation. In SD you must get a hold of the enemy as fast as possible and grip fighting training do not add anything in a SD scenario.

so you think that the skills that grip fighting build (learning to get grips and break grips against a resisting opponent) are not useful in self defense?

i would say that knowing how to get grips on someone trying to prevent you from doing so, and to break grips that have been established would be extremely valuable skills, especially for a judoka looking to apply their training in a self defense situation.

what's your judo rank? how much do you compete?

**Just Guess** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 3:56pm

Originally Posted by Your_Majesty

I was talking about this rule: "The referees should strictly penalize the contestants who do not engage in a quick Kumikata grip or who try not to be gripped by the opponent.", not grip breaking one. Grip fighting is almost useless in a SD situation. In SD you must get a hold of the enemy as fast as possible and grip fighting training do not add anything in a SD scenario.

What definition of self defense are you using, because it sure isn't the same as mine, which mostly involves avoiding or getting away from danger. Actually going on the offensive is only for situations where violence is completely unavoidable, and even then only for however long it takes before it's safe to run away.

**Your_Majesty** · Posted On: 12/27/2012 8:50am

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

so you think that the skills that grip fighting build (learning to get grips and break grips against a resisting opponent) are not useful in self defense?

They banned long grip fighting not all fighting. No one new isn't going to know how to grip fight. The loss of total skill isn't enough to create people unable to deal with someone that got a grip on your clothes.

Originally Posted by Just Guess

Actually going on the offensive is only for situations where violence is completely unavoidable, and even then only for however long it takes before it's safe to run away.

The kind of oponent that you can beat by camly getting a superior grip on his clothes and unbalancing him and pushing him to the ground and running away or just running away is not the kind of guy I am worried for. I am worried about guys bigger, younger, stronger than me in situations I cannot just run. These guys are the ones coming at me with haymakers that do have enough power to hurt/KO me. These guys are the ones I need to reduce as much as possible his striking capacity as fast as possible and a long grip fighting is not going to help me with that.

I am no Judoka. Got some months only of training in Judo. Train in Sanshou and BJJ.
My opinion is based on the short, but that happened, training in Judo with some comps at white belt level, my training in BJJ which includes some BJJ for MMA and SD, my observation of both Judo competition and MMA participation of judokas including Combat Sambo which is done in the gi and, most important at all, logic, common sense and by watching plenty of videos of street fighting and live performances of drunk people in pubs.

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 12/27/2012 12:19pm

Originally Posted by Your_Majesty

They banned long grip fighting not all fighting. No one new isn't going to know how to grip fight. The loss of total skill isn't enough to create people unable to deal with someone that got a grip on your clothes.

wait. what?

I am no Judoka. Got some months only of training in Judo.

oh, now it makes sense. don't go posting as an expert in an art you don't practice.

**Your_Majesty** · Posted On: 12/28/2012 7:23am

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

wait. what?

Did you even tried to understand what I wrote? Time, not quality, is what takes the biggest hit in the rule change.

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

oh, now it makes sense. don't go posting as an expert in an art you don't practice.

The last thread of discussion was about you complaining about my view on grips and self-defense, not about the technical details of a Judo competition.

Ask one of your biggest friends to try to knock you out by punching then try to apply what you are saying about gripping against him then you will understand why it will not work.

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 12/28/2012 8:34am

Originally Posted by Your_Majesty

Did you even tried to understand what I wrote? Time, not quality, is what takes the biggest hit in the rule change.

The last thread of discussion was about you complaining about my view on grips and self-defense, not about the technical details of a Judo competition.

Ask one of your biggest friends to try to knock you out by punching then try to apply what you are saying about gripping against him then you will understand why it will not work.

since you neither practice judo, nor compete in it, you have no business making factual statements about the rule changes that you don't compete under.

you could guess, but it's a guess. i have taken some BJJ, but don't regularly practice it or compete, so if i was to try to make definitive statements about rule changes in BJJ, it would be absurd, and i would come off like an arrogant asshole (like you just did)

get it?

**thp** · Posted On: 12/28/2012 10:42am

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

since you neither practice judo, nor compete in it, you have no business making factual statements about the rule changes that you don't compete under.

you could guess, but it's a guess. i have taken some BJJ, but don't regularly practice it or compete, so if i was to try to make definitive statements about rule changes in BJJ, it would be absurd, and i would come off like an arrogant asshole (like you just did)

get it?

I think you two need to have one of those Bullshido meet up and beat up meetings. Then post a follow up video of the hatefest.

**Your_Majesty** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 9:43am

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

since you neither practice judo, nor compete in it, you have no business making factual statements about the rule changes that you don't compete under.

you could guess, but it's a guess. i have taken some BJJ, but don't regularly practice it or compete, so if i was to try to make definitive statements about rule changes in BJJ, it would be absurd, and i would come off like an arrogant asshole (like you just did)

get it?

By your viewpoint, since you neither street fight regularly, nor do any self defense oriented martial art, you have no business making factual statements about the use of your skills in something that you don't train for.

If you made any comment about a BJJ rule, I would just point out that X will result in Y instead of trying to act like an expert in using BJJ for self-defense as my self-defense training is limited to some classes oriented for that per year and zero bar brawls, which I doubt you even have the equivalent in your Judo class.