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  1. Punisher is offline
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    Seeker of Truth

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2004 2:08pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1. Anyone that wrestled NCAA Div I has skill on the ground, even if they don't have a lot of subs. If you don't believe me, even go roll with some starters for Davis. Randleman, from the article you cited is "Possibly the most physically gifted mixed martial artist". Hardly just a gnp man.
    Wrestlers have skill on the ground at maintaining positional dominance. Which is a big part of the ground game. But it is only part of it. A skill submission artist can finish a fight from a "inferior" position. Fedor vs. Coleman was a perfect example of that.

    And there is no denigning Randelman is physically impressive. He has more muscle packed on to a small frame than anyone I have ever seen. While Kerr and Coleman have been noticably smaller in their recent fights than in the past, Kevin keeps getting bigger.

    Sounds like Leko couldn't execute any gameplan. Then Ogawa forced him to submit from the ground. Leko couldn't keep it standing because of his awkward slip (which he may not have trained for, per the K1 rules - do you get my previous comment, now?) and couldn't get up. After Nog tapped Crocop, I said Crocop needs to work his grappling more. I say the same thing about Leko.
    I don't have single problem with anything said here. But this isn't what you're original write-up says to me. The phrase "as usual" implies to me that nothing abnormal or unusaual happened in the fight and that simply wasn't the case.

    3. IMO, you need to stop adding words and motivations to what I wrote. I don't buy that a striker is suddenly dead if he falls to the ground. If they want to compete in MMA, they'd better train to get back up. E.g. Train their grappling.
    "Train your grappling" is an easy answer, but it's unrealistic. In fact you said Leko has to train his grappling "a bit more." Leko could train grappling 8 hours a day for an enitre year and still not be as good a Ogawa on the ground. And as you, I, and everyone has already said EVERYONE has to work on their grappling.

    4. Lindland's throw attempt caused a knockout, whether you want to label it a freak event, or a throw that was countered. Leko's slip didn't result in any instantaneous decision either way.
    Would you consider the possibility of a psychological knockout? Ending up on the ground so early in the fight, seemingly for no reason, before inflicting any damage to his opponent, had to be psychologically devasting to Leko. Maybe he panicked, his mind shut down, and his will gave out. Maybe Leko needs to work on being mentally tougher.

    5. I stand by my original writeup. The grappler forced the striker to fight his fight and the striker lost when he was out of his element.
    Fair enough. I would still say it is more accurate to say that the grappler took advantage of the striker slipping and from then on forced the striker to fight his fight.
  2. Budd is offline

    Professor of Chaos

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2004 2:21pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Punisher

    I don't have single problem with anything said here. But this isn't what you're original write-up says to me. The phrase "as usual" implies to me that nothing abnormal or unusaual happened in the fight and that simply wasn't the case.
    Maybe I should have specified that, because it seems that the K1 transplants are just not getting how critically they need to train to get off the ground, or at least stall the action for a restart (as Crocop has been able to do).

    Originally posted by Punisher

    "Train your grappling" is an easy answer, but it's unrealistic. In fact you said Leko has to train his grappling "a bit more." Leko could train grappling 8 hours a day for an enitre year and still not be as good a Ogawa on the ground. And as you, I, and everyone has already said EVERYONE has to work on their grappling.
    I don't think it's realistic for Leko to train with the expectation of being as good as Ogawa, either, but he (like all strikers) needs to be able to stall for a restart, or get off the ground. Those skills I think are within his grasp.

    Originally posted by Punisher

    Would you consider the possibility of a psychological knockout? Ending up on the ground so early in the fight, seemingly for no reason, before inflicting any damage to his opponent, had to be psychologically devasting to Leko. Maybe he panicked, his mind shut down, and his will gave out. Maybe Leko needs to work on being mentally tougher.
    I have thought of that and it's certainly possible. Even though I studied psychology, I'm still fairly hesitant to ascribe any definitive diagnoses that weren't definitively witnessed. I wonder, though, if he didn't give up to an extent once the fight went to the ground, because like I earlier said, he sure gave up that arm for the choke. I think this type of thing is harder to measure than his grappling skills ;)

    Originally posted by Punisher

    Fair enough. I would still say it is more accurate to say that the grappler took advantage of the striker slipping and from then on forced the striker to fight his fight.
    Of course you're going to say that, you striker, you :) I'm primarily a grappler, though, and we don't play fair and impartial!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    Seriously, though, good discussion. Off-topic, but is the job search still going in full gear? Keep us posted.
  3. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2004 3:45pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Off-topic, but is the job search still going in full gear? Keep us posted.
    I have a few promising leads. I don't want to jinx them. I'll give a full update as soon and I know something for sure.

    The thing I'm currently focusing on is recovering from my hernia repair. I'm planning doing a write up on that as soon I start to ease of the pain meds and I can think a little clearer.
  4. Noodlepower is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2004 8:08pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by SLJ
    Does anyone know where these can be downloaded ?

    And whens the next round ?

    www.suprnova.org

    search "PRIDE"
  5. Noodlepower is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2004 8:10pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    and I think i agree with Peedee when he said Randleman is heavy on the roids. what do you guys think?
    Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.
    -Albert Einstein
  6. SLJ is offline

    Titan

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2004 3:16am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think you can get that big naturally.

    Thanks for the link.
    "You realise the transformations give a man enough strength to destroy a truck with his bare hands!?
    YOU HAVE BETRAYED ME, IN THE WORST POSSIBLE MANNER!!" - KiWarrior

    "Sport ? That kind of thing's not my bag baby!" - Sammy Franco

    "This system was developed with the help of notible BJJ fighter Ribbon Muchado." - "Sifu" Anthony Iglesias
  7. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/06/2004 1:12pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt until he test's positive. I don't know what laws or regs the Japanese have, but it may be telling that Randelman doesn't compete in the US anymore.
  8. mikus is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2004 11:23pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm almost positive that they do not test.
    You want some birth control? You can smoke a cigarette.
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