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  1. Middlefinger is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/07/2012 5:45pm

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    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
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  2. Mr. Machette is online now

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2012 5:50pm

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    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    What I am taking away from this is a few of you broke your bifocals and can't read from up on that soapbox.

    Again where did anyone say HE SHOULD NOT PARTICIPATE? I see two people attacking the motivation of the match and one person saying "not my child..."
    Ok then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    That was fucking disgusting. Why would the parent of the kid with cerebral palsy turn him into the center of a freak show like that? There's no dignity in that. The kid can't even move. It's just ridiculous.

    And why would the parent of the other boy let him do that? If someone tried to get my son to do that I'd tell them to **** off and find another kid for their warped Hallmark moment.
    Uno...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_Claus View Post
    That was just weird to me. I don't think I would have allowed either of my kids to participate in that match. Practice, yes. Match? No. I would like to know what the venue was. If it was a legit tournament then it is a little rediculous. I mean, if the kid's dad would have laid him on his back instead of his stomach then he would have pinned himself.

    I used to lifeguard for the special olympics. I also got to see how those kids enyoyed getting to do stuff. But they were capable enough not to drown when you put them in the water. I think this kids parents should be looking more toward those baseball legues where you can play in a wheelchair. It is more geared toward CP kids.
    Dos...

    Quote Originally Posted by legomepanda View Post
    So did the cerebral palsy kid practice sprawls and half nelsons with the rest of the wrestling team? What'd he do when they got to sprints? The kid is apparently able minded, so let's get him into something he can excel at. Like a wheel chair and half baked ideas about light speed and time.
    Tres...

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Smells View Post
    Bah humbug
    Cuatro...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    Second thought - maybe I would let my son participate. He could crossface the **** out of the kid and give him the DX crotch chop after the easy W.

    Seriously though - I'm all for being nice to the chirruns. I just don't think this is nice. I think it's disrespectful to everyone involved to put them into this fucked up spectacle.
    Cinco...

    That's five. Five posts shitting on this charity moment "on principle" of some sort.

    Sorry I didn't paraphrase these posts exactly as they appeared. I don't know if that stretch of the imagination was too much for your logic circuits to process but there it is.

    Five posts of "bullshit" or "not if it was my kid".

    Well it wasn't any of our kids and it wasn't bullshit for the CP boy. The question shouldn't be "what if it was your kids?". The question should be "what if it was YOU in the weelchair".

    You must be having a **** day or something. I can't believe you'd actually get bent over a positive point in the midst of serveral "**** the criple" posts.
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2012 6:01pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    The question shouldn't be "what if it was your kids?". The question should be "what if it was YOU in the weelchair".
    That's actually the question I answered since its the one I have the capacity to answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    In his place, I'd feel closer to Devil's opinion: that this is not a wrestling match and I'm being made into a charity display. But that's just me and if this kid got something out of it, great for everyone.
    and I don't think I'm being some kind of condescending dick "on principle", I think that 13 year old me with cerebral palsy would go through with this and think "wow, that was nothing like the exciting matches I watch from the sidelines. This isn't really a wrestling match and I feel patronized at this audience clapping while I literally do nothing. I am more depressed now than when I started".

    Again, how I'd feel as the guy in the wheelchair.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/07/2012 6:08pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Ok then...


    Uno...


    Dos...


    Tres...


    Cuatro...


    Cinco...

    That's five. Five posts shitting on this charity moment "on principle" of some sort.

    Sorry I didn't paraphrase these posts exactly as they appeared. I don't know if that stretch of the imagination was too much for your logic circuits to process but there it is.

    Five posts of "bullshit" or "not if it was my kid".

    Well it wasn't any of our kids and it wasn't bullshit for the CP boy. The question shouldn't be "what if it was your kids?". The question should be "what if it was YOU in the weelchair".

    You must be having a **** day or something. I can't believe you'd actually get bent over a positive point in the midst of serveral "**** the criple" posts.
    My day is fine, apparently you miss Sirc. As permalost and the others pointed it out it was the MATCH itself not that he can't participate in wrestling. So, for the third time, tell me where anyone said he can't participate in wrestling. Yes, I forgot you are a dumbass, I asked twice, I made sure to type it correctly just for you. The closest is lemon.

    Your trolling anger never surprises me.
  5. Mr. Machette is online now

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2012 6:13pm

    Join us... or die
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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    My day is fine, apparently you miss Sirc..
    He never calls...
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    As permalost and the others pointed it out it was the MATCH itself not that he can't participate in wrestling. So, for the third time, tell me where anyone said he can't participate in wrestling. The closest is lemon.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinions. My bleeding heart makes me feel for the boy so I dissagree. Sorry if I came across as "holier than thou". I know we are in YMAS so maybe I should not take some of the posts so seriously...


    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Your trolling anger never surprises me.
    It was one of those Walter Sobchak moments...

  6. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2012 10:10pm

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    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan View Post
    My $.02 comes from Kurt, a tough Okie LEO (last job was children's sex slavery Judge's task force for Northern CO) rancher / camp director. He used his high country spread for handicapped kids for decades, until insurance and labor got too much. We use his place for http://mountainfriendscamp.org/. Kurt talked to me one night about getting hadicapped kids on horses, canoes, river rafting, and even water skiing. He said the payoff was seeing the kid's lives change from one good experience and knowing that he'd made a big difference. Who cares if it's not "real" water skiing and that the kid is propped up on a sled?

    Well God damn it, if Kurt says there's a payoff to taking kids on outdoor adventures then it must be true that it isn't disgraceful to put a crippled as **** kid in a public wrestling match. 'Cause horses.
  7. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2012 12:24am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Dang. Y'all are some heartless mofos saying this kid can't participate.

    Hasn't he gotten enough of a raw deal in life? Y'all want to take away some exibition fun and a great opportunity for the other kid to show some real heart?

    Yeah, I said it. The boy who rolled with him just showed a great deal of compassion and sportsmanship. He knew it wasn't a "competition". He saw it for what it was. A brief chance for the CP kid to experience normality. Just for a couple of seconds. The kid can't wrestle. He'll never get to be a wrestler. This short exibition roll was a way to include him in something that nature litteraly cheated him out of.

    Y'all are some messed up, social darwinist Nazis if you really think this shouldn't have happened. It was big karma points for the healthy boy and a unique positive experience for the crippled boy.

    That's all that needs to be taken away from this.
    If you think that me saying that I wouldn't let my kids participate is heartless, then I clearly have seen a lot worse **** in life than you. But whatever, I probably am heartless. I think that allowing my kid to wrestle a handycapped kid would be making him a specticle. I don't do that to my kids.

    You mentioned that he knew it wasn't a competition. But the article says that he didn't know. But if it were an exhibition where they were trying to do what you are saying, then that would be different. As I said in my post that you quoted but didn't read, I would like to know more about the venue that they were in.

    So basically, I didn't say what you are saying that I said.
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  8. ChuckWepner is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2012 12:27am


     

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan View Post
    My $.02 comes from Kurt, a tough Okie LEO (last job was children's sex slavery Judge's . . .
    (Pat, I realize that there was no period and no close parenthesis there, but that was a very unfortunate, unnecessary capital J.)

    A few points about the match:

    1) It's hard to fully evaluate, not really knowing what Jared wanted and why he wanted it.

    2) Jared's dad doesn't come across well in the video; it makes me wonder whether Jared's being in a match is really Jared's goal or more his father's.

    3) I showed the video to a close friend who is a career special ed teacher and worker with developmentally disabled adults and children. Her reaction was that it seemed unlikely to be beneficial for Jared to put him into an activity for which he had no skills and use his time and energy that way rather than helping him to find activities that he can participate in given the skills he has so that he can develop himself and build self-esteem through them. So, unless there is some compelling reason we don't know of why Jared has to be involved in a wrestling meet, it seems like a poor option.

    4) While being involved in wrestling as an activity is something that Jared would be able to do if he didn't have CP, and so something he is entitled to do to the extent he can given his CP, being on a competitive school team and competing in official meets and tourneys isn't necessarily. Plenty of kids without disabilities don't make teams that they want to make because they lack the size, speed, endurance, skill, etc. to make the cut. Some of these can be overcome through training and effort; some can't. So, while Jared has a right to participate in wrestling as an activity, to the extent that he is able (which is apparently very limited), being on a team or in a meet is a different question.

    5) While the other boy responded with grace and generosity to a very difficult situation, in general any opponent is being treated pretty badly by being put in his situation. If it's true that his action was not agreed upon beforehand, he was put, through no fault of his own, into a position where almost anything he did would be bad. Does he flop Jared over and pin a helpless opponent? Walk off and refuse to wrestle and get accused of discriminating against a disabled boy? Prop Jared up and fake wrestle him like a guy in a bad old sci fi movie "fighting" a rubber alien dummy? He came up with about the only way he could come out of this looking like a decent guy. While that makes him seem like a good kid, was it anything close to fair to put him in that position?

    I'm in favor of helping disabled kids develop themselves as fully as they can, but the other kids (and adults) in their environments have to be respected and taken into account, too.

    So, while I admire Jared's opponent, and I endorse the general motivation behind Jared's involvement (patfromlogan's friend's camp sounds wonderful, for example), overall, this seems like a dubious idea at best. Especially since Jared, if what we are told about his mental function is correct, fully understands that he did nothing to earn his "win" and that it reflects nothing about him that it happened.
  9. ChuckWepner is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2012 12:44am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a link to an ABC News video with more background to the match, including comments from Jared's father, Jared's coach, and Justin Kievit (the other boy).

    Warning: Morning TV hosts comments before and after may cause diabetic coma; keep insulin handy while watching.

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/wres...jared-17892438
  10. sambosteve is online now
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    12/09/2012 12:30pm

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    8
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found this video (which I saw about a week ago) to be very uncomfortable to watch.

    I spent most of my career (before running my gym full time) working in pediatrics and before that in a group home for people living with developmental disabilities.

    I have worked extensively with Make-a-Wish, various camps like the Hole in the Wall Gang, and the like. I don't see myself supporting this "wrestling" event. At least not in the way it appears (I am assuming the boy with CP wanted to do this).

    Most wishes and the like I was involved with dealt with activities the child COULD do to some degree. The difference here is that, as noted in this thread, when kids with disabilities go horseback riding, boating, etc, they are still actually horseback riding. They are still experiencing the feel and thrill of sailing or riding, etc. This kid in the video could have strapped in for a tandem sky dive and he still would have been sky diving and experiencing what it is like to sky dive.

    When I worked for Kids Kicking Cancer, we would teach martial arts in various pediatric oncology centers. The kids would never be Jackie Chan, but we focused on what they could do depending on their physical state. It built up their esteem, etc. It was a great experience. But we never held up mitts for someone who could not punch.

    The difference I see in this "wrestling" video is that it is not wrestling, never will be wrestling. After this experience, this child still does not know what it feels like to wrestle. There is a point where I feel we simply need to stop being PC and be honest with people about what they can and can't do.

    This vid reminds me of the guy with quadruple loss of limbs that "fought" MMA. He got his ass kicked. But the bottom line is that it was not MMA. It was some kind of bizarre sideshow display, but not MMA. NJ would not license him for the fight, but he went to another state that did. And after the fight he realized that it was pretty dumb to have done it.

    There are many ways this child could have realistically been involved in the wrestling scene in a way that he can contribute (assuming all his faculties are there). Teach him to coach, get him involved with the team in a way that he can really play a role. Not as some kind of feel good display.
    Last edited by sambosteve; 12/09/2012 1:14pm at .
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