Tao Gung Fu Hornsby- Kerim Schaber

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 7:04pm

Welcome Kerim, thanks for taking the time to reply. A few loose ends I was wondering about:
-your website says you do hypnotherapy and bio-photon light treatment. What's your background in these disciplines? I'm particularly interested in the 2nd one.

-the site says "Judo from 11 years of age". I assume you stopped at some point? When?

**Tao Gung Fu** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 7:10pm

Hi Guys,
i have posted this on my website so that no student will get mislead. I know this still will not satisfy most of you......My primary concern is not to mislead and be honest. Please give me your schools name so that I can send those students to you that want linage and titles.

Tao Gung Fu
Is a new style started in 2009 there is no claim whatsoever to have any links with any other Linage. I teach what I have learned and find credible over the years. I don’t claim any title or rank. I am just a practitioner seeking to improve myself and pass on what I believe. Kerim

**Tao Gung Fu** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 7:11pm

It was of and on as I moved from Germany to Melbourne then to north Queensland and then around there. I achieved bron belt by I guy I forgot. I stopped at about 17.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 7:14pm

Originally Posted by Tao Gung Fu

It was of and on as I moved from Germany to Melbourne then to north Queensland and then around there. I achieved bron belt by I guy I forgot. I stopped at about 17.

This is the judo, yeah?

**ChuckWepner** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 7:34pm

Mr Schaber,

Thank you for your responses, which seem very forthcoming and forthright. I am not Mr. Wepner, just someone who admired him as a boy (my profile, under "About Me" states that I am not he); I apologize for any confusion. The statement that you have added does clarify matters.

The issue of what entitles someone to issue grades and sashes in Kung Fu remains one that some may disagree about, but your honesty and openness about the basis on which you issue them should serve to mitigate concerns.

I wish you and your students continued success.

**Tao Gung Fu** · Posted On: 12/14/2012 4:55am

Hi Permalost,

My respects to you. If that is what you want to call it thats fine by me I also practice kicking and punching with and without gloves.

In my research and from what my Asian students told me and also on Wikipedia as well as other books the term Kung fu/Kungfu or Gung fu/Gongfu (功夫, Pinyin: gōngfu) is a Chinese term referring to any study, learning, or practice that requires patience, energy, and time to complete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_fu_(term)

Warmes wishes
Kerim

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 12/14/2012 5:09am

Originally Posted by Tao Gung Fu

Hi Permalost,

My respects to you. If that is what you want to call it thats fine by me I also practice kicking and punching with and without gloves.

In my research and from what my Asian students told me and also on Wikipedia as well as other books the term Kung fu/Kungfu or Gung fu/Gongfu (功夫, Pinyin: gōngfu) is a Chinese term referring to any study, learning, or practice that requires patience, energy, and time to complete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_fu_(term)

Warmes wishes
Kerim

Please stop while everything is clear. You are now trying to argue semantics and being disingenuous. If you were cooking, cleaning, building bridges, doing IT etc etc, in Chinese circles, you could use this argument. Kung Fu, especially in the Western World, carries a VERY SPECIFIC connotation when you teach Martial Arts. When you use this term, it means you are practicing or teaching a Chinese Martial art, or an offshoot from the same type of lineage.

In other words, no, that wiki definition does not mean you should label you art Kung Fu. Call it what you want, but wiki is not supporting your point.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/14/2012 12:10pm

Originally Posted by Tao Gung Fu

Hi Permalost,

My respects to you. If that is what you want to call it thats fine by me I also practice kicking and punching with and without gloves.

Okay that's cool, but just to keep it straightforward, you studied judo from 11 to 17 and achieved a brown belt?

In my research and from what my Asian students told me and also on Wikipedia as well as other books the term Kung fu/Kungfu or Gung fu/Gongfu (功夫, Pinyin: gōngfu) is a Chinese term referring to any study, learning, or practice that requires patience, energy, and time to complete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_fu_(term)

Warmes wishes
Kerim

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't be calling what you teach kung fu, or that you should call it judo or something. Omega, a well respected instructor here, teaches his own kung fu style and it incorporates judo, for example. But, again to clairfy, you've chose the Kung Fu part as a homage to Chinese martial arts, yeah? Otherwise, why even use Chinese?

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 12/14/2012 12:19pm

Originally Posted by Permalost

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't be calling what you teach kung fu, or that you should call it judo or something. Omega, a well respected instructor here, teaches his own kung fu style and it incorporates judo, for example.

I agree. Still, if you are going to use Omega as an example let's make it complete. Omega has Chinese lineage, which is one of the issue in this thread, to a specific CMAs with his instructor's approval.

Two different issues.

**Mr.Miyagi** · Posted On: 12/16/2012 12:56am

Originally Posted by Tao Gung Fu

Hi Guys,
i have posted this on my website so that no student will get mislead. I know this still will not satisfy most of you......My primary concern is not to mislead and be honest. Please give me your schools name so that I can send those students to you that want linage and titles.

Tao Gung Fu
Is a new style started in 2009 there is no claim whatsoever to have any links with any other Linage. I teach what I have learned and find credible over the years. I don’t claim any title or rank. I am just a practitioner seeking to improve myself and pass on what I believe. Kerim

The problem I see with this is that you STILL use an appeal to authority (apologies if this is not the correct logical fallacy) based on the amount of time you have trained in 'martial arts' but then state nothing of the actual facts of this training you've had for decades and decades, which you use to justify why you are able to teach without rank and without any solid documented timeline for your own studies; this is why I find it is misleading and not fair for consumers looking to purchase your instruction.

Not to mention you don't remember whom graded you to brown in Judo which should be pretty easy to check as they should keep very detailed records from what I have read and understand of the Judo Federation, even in Australia.

What also seems strange is how much emphasis you put on your students gradings, but not on your own training and timeline. Your adult gradings go for 5 hours, that's pretty full on, and then your entire syllabus is about preparing your students for a 5 hour grading in which you write detailed reports during and after, but the students should also know what belt they are so they don't need to wear a belt, but still need to grade for 5 hours? Doesn't something seem a little off with this? Doesn't this seem strange and contradictory?

I don't think anyone is expecting a timeline of lineage back to the first humanoid to throw a punch a million years ago...but something within your lifetime as this 'training' has made you able to consolidate techniques into what you believe works to 'better people' in some general way that isn't very specific. In my opinion, you sound like a creepy life coach rather than a martial arts instructor.