Tao Gung Fu Hornsby- Kerim Schaber

**ChuckWepner** · Posted On: 12/09/2012 9:41am

One reason Kerim Schaber is so quiet about his training and so anxious that students not judge their teachers seems likely to be that his Kung Fu training came from Australian bourbon salesman / martial arts fantasist Max Austin / Barry Dawson. Given that Austin's lineage claims basically consist of a fable of being a kind of martial arts Dalai Lama chosen by unnamed "Tibetan Taoist monks" at age 6 for lifelong training in martial arts that no other Westerner knows, under a master that he doesn't name, it's a little tough for Schaber to give his lineage credibly.

Fortunately for Schaber, he doesn't believe that lineage, certs, or belts matter. As he says, "Don't get lost in accreditation's [sic], belts, sashes or what not." Of course, he is happy to offer adult students 10 color grades of sashes with a $45 testing fee each and kids 5 color grades with a $35 testing fee each. So, not worrying about belts and certifications and what not seems to apply only to "teachers" and not to students.

See this thread http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19182 in which Austin / Dawson is discussed and in which Kerim Schaber self-identifies as his student.

**shifu** · Posted On: 12/12/2012 2:22am

Okay I can see and remember about this thing sometime ago.

In Kerim's defense he is very, very far removed from the whole former instructor thing. And I can certainly understand and sympathize was to why he doesn't want to mention Max Austin at all!!!

In fact Kerim's style shares more with Pak Hok then anything else. He is extremely open-minded and willing to help anyone within the martial arts and he has built Tao Gung Fu into a very successful school of Martial Arts despite the shadowy past and his disassociation with Austin.

Rather than slag Kerim off on the basis of the acts of Austin, would it not be better if you actually gave him a call or sent him and email and asked what you wanted ? Or you could always go along to his school, watch some classes and take it from there.

**ChuckWepner** · Posted On: 12/12/2012 11:11pm

Originally Posted by shifu

Okay I can see and remember about this thing sometime ago.

In Kerim's defense he is very, very far removed from the whole former instructor thing. And I can certainly understand and sympathize was to why he doesn't want to mention Max Austin at all!!!

I can understand it as well, but his students are entitled to know his training and qualifications, despite his statement that students are not to "judge" the teacher. Mr. Schaber is teaching Kung Fu to children and adults at all levels, and offering testing at all levels, including black belt. His stated qualification for this is 16 years of study of Kung Fu. He is very specific about his business background and university degrees, but extremely vague about his martial arts training. People considering training under him deserve to know what his training and qualifications in Kung Fu are.

In fact Kerim's style shares more with Pak Hok then anything else. He is extremely open-minded and willing to help anyone within the martial arts and he has built Tao Gung Fu into a very successful school of Martial Arts despite the shadowy past and his disassociation with Austin.

For someone who, as of three days ago, was just going to go check this school out, you seem very familiar with Mr. Schaber, his relationship with Austin, and his program. Would you care to clarify your relationship to Mr. Schaber and to "Tao Gung Fu"?

The issue isn't whether the school is successful or whether Mr. Schaber is a nice guy. These are red herrings.

Rather than slag Kerim off on the basis of the acts of Austin, would it not be better if you actually gave him a call or sent him and email and asked what you wanted ? Or you could always go along to his school, watch some classes and take it from there.

I have not "slagged off" Mr. Schaber. I have reported a set of apparent facts about him and his school and his Kung Fu training and noted that his practices about belts for students seem inconsistent with his own professed disregard for belts, etc.

The questions that seem to me to need answering include these, but I welcome suggestions from others:

1) What belt(s) or other certifications does Mr. Kerim Schaber hold in Kung Fu or in any other Martial Art?
2) When and from whom were each of these received?
3) What method of qualifying led to the award of each of these?
4) On what basis is Mr. Schaber entitled to train, test, and award ranks to, students in Kung Fu?

Since Mr. Schaber has previously posted here, I would invite him to answer those questions in this thread in order to clarify these matters and remove all question concerning his qualifications.

Since you seem to be on close terms with him, shifu, perhaps you would be good enough to invite him to answer these questions here.

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 12/12/2012 11:40pm

Originally Posted by shifu

Hi Blindside,

I've met and trained with Kerim Schaber of Tao Gung Fu when he visited my school a few months ago now. His main lineage or art is found within the Tibetan Martial Arts.

He is a very nice person, easy to get along with and with a good understanding and highly skilled in his chosen art.

His web site is at:

http://www.taogungfu.com/taogungfu/Tao_Gung_Fu.htm

Hi Shifu, thanks for your input on this thread. I am a little curious, along with ChuckWepner, as to your relationship with Kerim.

You say he visited your school. Can I get clarification? Is it your school as in you run it and are the teacher (as your name might suggest), or is it your school as in you train there?

Also, I'd be very concerned that I could not find out my instructors lineage. Considering he is, in your words, "highly skilled in his chosen art", I'd like to know what his chosen art actually is. Tao Gung Fu is not an art, however a complete novice with little to no knowledge on the subject could easily be convinced, due to the nature of the words and the fact that Bruce Lee wrote a book with a similar title. It smacks of a marketing tactic to someone attuned to the martial art world, which it very well might be and there is no shame in that, but it would need to be backed up by legitimacy. Do you know what his chosen art is?

You seem to know, with little information, about this school. If you could clear up these queries, it'd be greatly appreciated, so as to ensure that any further posts are not held in a quagmire of confusion.

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 4:05am

I have invited Kerim to the discussion.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 12:53pm

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119267

**Tao Gung Fu** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 5:07pm

Hi Noob,

My name is Kerim Schaber and I teach at Tao Gung Fu. i started Tao Gung Fu 3 years ago because i don't have a linage or titles to speak of. But lots of experience and training. I dont believe that this matters as what i teach is about general self improvement.
Do you think linage is so important? In my travels I have found many claims and much mystery that mostly never got completely unraveled. There is a guy in Hornsby who teaches Wing Chung with linage and another person at the PCYC who teaches Kung Fu with lots of titles and 20 years of competition. There are various Karate styles with a 70 year old linage and a Brazilian Jujitsu School if that is what you are after. I think there is also a Jet Kun Do school nearby if indeed you like Bruce Lees linage.

Some of my students have left and tried others and most are back. i am the first to support that and welcome you back if you chose to come. I am not claiming anything you are welcome to come up and have a chat with me. No obligation or offence taken as well as if you want talk to any of the students around. If you are into learning MMA simply after learning to fight then you are better of somewhere else. My path is about fixing and improving first and foremost.

That said my students entered a few tournaments this year and for their first go, did well. We have a first place in veterans point sparing NAS state, a national 3rd place in 16 year olds in Kyokoshin Karate and various 2nd and 3rd places in NAS. Oh and another 1st place in the female open point sparing and I think second in that one as well.

So far I found that in Martial Arts every person has a different opinion. Having mixed with other teachers this year I found that the true martial artist's have respect for each other.

Yes one of my teachers is called Max Austin. So far I have not found that what was written about him to be true. I have met other martial artists who have verified that Max has been studying since at least the early 70's. If the linage he claimed is correct? I dont know? I however take a man by his word until I am convinced that he is a fibber. So far his actions have been gallant. I dont see much of him any more but do count him as a friend and teacher.
I have another friend and teacher 68 years of age named Sensei James Rocci (3rd degree black belt in Okinawan Uechi-Ryu and 6th degree black belt in Chinese Kenpo)
who also confirms Maxes skill and has another friend in Canberra who studied Shaolin in China and has known of Max since the 70's.
I know that there have been some accusations to Max by some ex students having known some of the once who posted stuff I know that some where practicing with him for over 20 years and will have to admit that they did learn lots and much of what they are today can be accredited to Max. There is also claims of multiple relationships etc. I dont know what that has to do with martial arts. We all know it gets messy when relationships of that nature come into the picture.

So to quickly summ up, no claims by me in regards to linage or title just a promise if you train hard you will improve. Do some friendly sparing and you will soon see if it works.

Warm wishes
Kerim

PS: I find that talking to people with aliases strange? Why can't you put down your name? it is great to expose frauds but remember the people with the bi white pointy hats! A Witch hunt is usually going to cause many innocent people to suffer.

**Tao Gung Fu** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 5:23pm

Hi battlefields,
Or is it Sam? Anyway I dont know why all this mystery with your names what are you afraid of? Yes it does look like a marketing ploy in hindside but that is not the reason I called my style Tao Gung Fu.

The reasons are:
- One I like Tao philosophy as it is translated sometimes as the way.
- Two hearing chinese people pronounce Kung Fu to me it sounds more like Gung Fu. - - three Starting a new school one has to have a name.

I do not wish to claim anything and am no misleading people in training with me. I am not training MMA, or any any other proven tournament style. I practice and teach what I think make sense. Having a fitness background and not being a purist gives me a different perspective. I like to sit with the philosophy of training and improving until I am 6 foot under. I am 46 and feel better than I ever have.

This year we entered into various tournaments (Kyokoshin and NAS) please let me know of more open style tournaments and we are interested to check them out. I like tournaments that show of skill rather than blood baths and pure knock outs. There are plenty of people practising that I am not interested.

I hope that in todays world there is understanding for new expression of the Martial Arts.

Warm wishes
Kerim

**Tao Gung Fu** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 5:45pm

Hi Chuck Wepner,

I have started my own school 3 years ago from the experiences of my travels. I am not claiming to be any rank or linage. i am not teaching or claiming to teach a true fighting martial arts as I believe that it all depends on the rules. I am open and honest have completed my Fitness leader course in 1989 and have been interested and studying martial arts in various forms from many schools for a long time.

We have this year entered tournaments and surprisingly done well. I only wanted to test my theories there. If you want you can call me a trainer instead. I practice what I preach and am active in all classes. I dont mean to mislead people and am open and honest.

Way back in Queensland when I studied Judo I received a Brown belt at a hall from a teacher i don't remember? I have received gradings from my current teacher but they are not related to any grading I have seen before. I am red sash.
I have not discussed gradings with friend and teacher Sensei James Rocci (3rd degree black belt in Okinawan Uechi-Ryu and 6th degree black belt in Chinese Kenpo). However he has watched many of my classes and has given me positive feed back.

I dont know what more you want? I have had students leave and return after trying several other styles. I take that as a positive.

Warm wishes
Kerim

**Tao Gung Fu** · Posted On: 12/13/2012 6:21pm

Hi Chuck,
Are you the real Chuck Wepner? If so very impressive and I certainly appreciate your feedback. Yes I agree that Max has interesting claims of his past, it is therefore that I started my own style!

He offered for me to continue his school, and I contemplated. But then refused and the school was closed. I did not think of starting up until I was approached by several of the old students. I then rented a council hall and finally after 6 month the old building was still available empty but there. I chose to start with my own name. Not claiming anything. If you do think that I should write a statement to your satisfaction on my website then by all means give it to me and I have a look. I have see Max very rarely since I started however i stand by him and he is still my friend and teacher as well as many other fine people.

The gradings are a long process and I take them very seriously all of the training is geared towards the grading syllabus. I dont need to tell people what grade they are they know themselves if they can do what is stated unter the colour.

I actually spend much time writing grading reports during and after the gradings. Giving people feedback on their progress then working through questions. The grading for the adults takes around 5 hours and the kids grading about 2.5 hours.

The authority I have to grade is only given to me by the students on my conduct during classes. People are not as ignorant as you seem to believe. I have many leaders of various businesses school teachers and TAFE teachers in my classes and the feedback I get is of gratitude. I teach individuals to improve physically and mentally not to be a prised fighter.

Thanks heaps for your impute.
Kerim