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  1. OniSan81 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 1:45pm


     Style: Genbukan Ninpo Bugei

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Bujinkan Experience

    Hello,

    Well I never thought I would be posting here. I somewhat hate this site, despite the good dose of reality it provides to many of us TMA's. However, I have to submit to the dark side and talk about one of the worst experiences of my martial arts path.

    The Bujinkan.

    First a little background on myself. I started martial arts when I was six years old, in Kyokushin. I did this for six/seven years, then did Wester Boxing under Otis Grant. I then moved to Toronto, and I fell into Wado Kai, Ryukyu Kobudo, Kenpo, and Submission Fighting. I taught at the Mudokwan as well.

    Long time passed, and I eventually decided to give Ninpo a try. I really believe in having as many tools possible in the box, and I really believe every style has SOMETHING to teach. I won't name the school or the teachers involved, but man was this experience unlike anything else...and not in a good way.

    First and foremost, I was laughed at for sparring, and considered way too aggressive and "firey". My previous experience was considered child's play, even though I would have wiped the floor with their whole org. There was nothing like having little men come up to me and say they couldn't spar, because their techniques were too deadly. Now, I understand and am knowledgable about the whole sparring vs street techniques debate, but sparring still plays a vital role. And I mean, a really vital role. In fact, if you don't spar, I think you're just playing martial arts. The attitude towards anything that could test their skills was nuts. Here are some of the bullshido lines I was fed in this school. And yes, this particular school had the largest amount of bullshit I had ever come across, and unfortunately they actually think it's legit. *sigh*

    1) Sparring is silly. Our techniques are too deadly.

    2) If you sweat, it means your Taijutsu isn't any good. Man, this one was unreal. They really get freaked out if they sweat. Obviously they've NEVER been in any combat.

    3) The other styles were, for the teacher, a waste of time. That statement alone really made me wonder...

    4) Nearly everything the teacher did came from the movie Peaceful Warrior. This guy would quote the movie and do things from the movie...it was interesting.

    5) All techniques were done extremely slow. The idea was that if you could do it really slow, you could do it very fast. No wonder they don't spar...

    6) Gun disarms would get you killed....trust me.

    7) Knife disarms would get you killed...trust me.

    8) Guys with two months experience were telling me, with twenty years experience, that my stuff was wrong. Ungh. They had the minds of cult leaders.

    9) Told me that techniques they were doing wouldn't work in sparring because my intention would be different on the street...and that if the intention wasn't there, the techniques wouldn't come out. Oh man, that one just bothered the hell out of me.

    10) Told me that eventually, with all the energy work they were doing, I wouldn't be able to spar. They said my body would literally burn out and that punching or shadow boxing would hurt my body. They even hinted that firey people like me get cancer. It was UNREAL.

    11) The place was like a cult.

    12) None of them were good fighters.

    13) Their idea of freestyle grappling was to not use any techniques, but just to flow until your knee happens to buckle the other person's knee and they fall down.

    14) They claimed they were grappling experts, though the teachers couldn't even pull off a fucking arm bar.

    15) They anti grappling techniques were easily the worst I have ever seen.

    16) The ego in the place...my God. They think sparring creates ego. I say sparring keeps ego in check, because you always get bested by someone else.

    Man I could go on forever...

    It was just the worst place guys, I'll never be the same...

    I ended up looking into the Genbukan, and I enjoy it a lot more. I get hit, I sweat, we do proper grappling and there's a good deal of contact. Yeah I know the Genbukan ain't cool with you guys either, but let me tell you, it's at least like your basic Japanese Jujutsu class.
    Last edited by OniSan81; 3/19/2008 1:56pm at .
  2. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 1:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So you went from teletubbies to spongebob squarepants?
    (please note this is in MABS)
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  3. SWEHurricane is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 2:03pm


     Style: Taijutsu, boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lol, one of the quotes was spot on:

    2) If you sweat, it means your Taijutsu isn't any good. Man, this one was unreal. They really get freaked out if they sweat. Obviously they've NEVER been in any combat.
    That's just retarded to tell a beginner. The only way to get anywhere is through sweat.

    This is a clear example of how some people just look at Hatsumi and try to copy what he is doing without getting the big picture. These people also don't realise the blood, sweat and tears that all the good guys had to put up with to get to that level. They can focus on theory, chasing different principles to perfection, but first and foremost, you have to learn the rugged basics.

    If you listen to what Hatsumi sensei says, here's a short quote from him: ""You need to have ferociousness in a real fight!" Things are described pretty clear. Even people at a high level that can focus on the finer details realise the true nature of fighting, it's not the same as theory, it's never perfect.

    EDIT: I'm not saying that these guys have bad taijutsu. Wish I could link to a long rant I wrote on MAP, but it's down atm. Anyway, the basic message that I believe in is "Being good at taijutsu is not the same as being a good fighter, even if good taijutsu will make you a better fighter"

    I don't know who you trained with, they might be good at taijutsu. But from what you wrote they seem to be delusional about alot of things.
    Last edited by SWEHurricane; 3/19/2008 2:11pm at .
  4. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 2:04pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You taught at the Mudukgwan?

    Boolsheet.
  5. OniSan81 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 2:09pm


     Style: Genbukan Ninpo Bugei

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I taught at Mudokwan Taekwondo Canada. Sorry for the confusion. I never studied TKD, I was just brought in to teach other aspects, ie joint locking and some ground work.
  6. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 2:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mmmmm ninpo ground work.
  7. OniSan81 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 2:16pm


     Style: Genbukan Ninpo Bugei

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Ninpo "groundwork" was basically wrist throws from your back. Hehe. The Genbukan teacher was a Judo instructor...so his ground work is more substantial.

    Bujinkan instructor had trouble pressing through an arm bar during a demo, and he was always very reluctant to show any techniques that he called "sportive".
  8. SWEHurricane is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 2:22pm


     Style: Taijutsu, boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    Mmmmm ninpo ground work.
    Actually we have some pretty good stuff that other grapplers often overlook. Like Kyojitsu, the art of deception.

    Here is my favorite technique:

    I put a tanto inside my gi-pants, walk up to a grappler, and ask about a roll on the mat. When he enters my guard, I press the tanto in my pants against his thighs, lean over and whisper in his ear "I love you". While he looks at me all confused I just reach down in my gi pants, get the tanto, and slice his throat, then get the eff out of there.

    Then you can just log on to Kutaki and register your kill, for karma points.
  9. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 2:24pm


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OniSan81

    I ended up looking into the Genbukan, and I enjoy it a lot more. I get hit, I sweat, we do proper grappling and there's a good deal of contact. Yeah I know the Genbukan ain't cool with you guys either, but let me tell you, it's at least like your basic Japanese Jujutsu class.
    Ok, this is another time I have heard this said about the genbunkan- I've even heard that they don't play into the BS ninja 'history' either. Can anyone else back this up?
  10. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 2:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SWEHurricane
    Actually we have some pretty good stuff that other grapplers often overlook. Like Kyojitsu, the art of deception.

    Here is my favorite technique:

    I put a tanto inside my gi-pants, walk up to a grappler, and ask about a roll on the mat. When he enters my guard, I press the tanto in my pants against his thighs, lean over and whisper in his ear "I love you". While he looks at me all confused I just reach down in my gi pants, get the tanto, and slice his throat, then get the eff out of there.

    Then you can just log on to Kutaki and register your kill, for karma points.
    I like to break out my wooden practice pistol at ninpo seminars and say "Bang." while I point it at various people and then yell "Hah! Where's you ninjutsu now bitch?!"
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