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  1. doofaloofa is offline
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    I'm Svelte!

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 9:06am

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     Style: mma

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    It's official.

    The thread has ceased to be over.

    Everyone continue posting or Errant will pop a musical vein.
  2. realjanuary is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 9:36am


     Style: Aikido, bits of jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    lists ahoy!

    Using Japanese jargon is one way of doing things, and people have pointed out some of the advantages. Other label systems have also been mentioned, with their advantages. This is tickling my list making tendencies, so here we go.

    Here are some of the labelling systems I can think of:
    *Vernacular used loosely: “throw him over your hip, with that head wrap thing”
    *Codified vernacular e.g. “motion vs. movement” in some Kenpo-ese
    *Codified jargon:(this overlaps with codified vernacular and codified foreign vernacular, but could include a non-vernacular i.e. making a new language) e.g. medical jargon
    *Foreign vernacular used loosely e.g. coach speaks casually in a foreign language
    *Codified foreign vernacular e.g. “gyakuzuki”
    *Onomatopoeic e.g. “You’re doing dun-dun-da, I want you to do dun-da-dun”
    *Codified onomatopoeic e.g. upa sweep
    *Numbered e.g. number 1 strike
    *Eponymous e.g. Kimura, Gable grip

    *There is some cross-over between a codified jargon and a codified vernacular and a codified foreign vernacular.

    Let’s look at some criteria for these labelling systems.
    *Clear (or secret)
    *Memorable
    *Transferable
    *Brief
    *Customisable e.g. o-, ko-, -uchi, -soto, harrai, and gake in judo as mentioned before
    *Allusions to other techniques
    *Honorific e.g. Eponymous
    *Humour (or some other aesthetic like a LARP factor)

    We can also look at how these labelling systems came to be. This might hint at what weight the originators and users give the different criteria.

    I’ve just realised I’m missing my keys, later.
  3. Grey Owl is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 10:04am


     Style: Karate, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judojeff View Post
    If all it takes to remove any ideas of morality from your martial art is to use a different language that's some weak sauce. Saying "hip throw" vs "O Goshi" doesn't magically turn it into a different throw or take away from Kanos ideas of judo as moral discipline.
    It's also extremely insulting to people who do not speak Japanese as it seems to imply their language lacks morals or is too simplistic to express intricate concepts. Perhaps some people are insecure in their skills and want to hide behind poorly understood terminology?

    I like using Japanese/Portugese for convenience however the language should be a tool to help learning not obfuscate it for those that just want to appear knowledgable.
  4. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 4:15pm

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    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dewey View Post
    Not true for koryu...and your provisio for Judo also applies to the koryu. Per my previous post in this thread: let's take for example the very first technique of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu...Mae. Loosely translated, it means "forward." That doesn't even begin to describe the meaning, purpose or proper execution of the technique. Use the Youtubes and see for yourself. "Forward" only denotes the direction of attack...it doesn't describe what's going on or even how to do it.

    If I follow your train of logic, I should instead call Mae: "as you rise up from seiza, simultanously draw your sword in a rapid but controlled way and sever the entire bicept and most of the tricept of your attacker's right arm as well as deeply cutting his right pectoral muscle before he can draw his sword so as to render him lame, then finish him off with an overhead strike." Yeah, my honky Missouri-bred gaijin ass will stick with "Mae."



    A common vocabulary unites all practicioners of a martial art or a combat sport. The use of the Japanese in traditional Japanese martial arts provides the Linga Franca for all. Using Japanese terminology is not bad in itself, it's just when the "Last Samurai" get involved and try to out Japanese the Japanese. We're all gaijin. Just gringos and honkys. As long as you're not comical or otherwise over-the-top about it, that's what counts.

    Nobody has ever heard of koryu, much less practiced it. So your argument is invalid.
  5. dewey is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 5:07pm


     Style: koryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Nobody has ever heard of koryu, much less practiced it. So your argument is invalid.
    I presuming you're being sarcastic. But, I'll bite anyway....

    Koryu bujutsu. I practice one, Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu. Use the google.
  6. thrutch is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 5:20pm


     Style: Shorin Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bondy8 View Post
    I once went to a class and I entered the class where they were playing"number of the beast" by iron maiden this was just not right.
    Why is that "just not right"? Seriously - how is training to music a bad thing?

    I don't get where you[re coming from with this thread at all mate. You're the instructor at the Colne branch of your organisation right? Are your classes more "respectful" than the Muay Thai classes down the road at Hakuda because they play music and you don't, and what they call a "roundhouse kick" you call "mawashi geri"?
  7. Styygens is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 5:30pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dewey View Post
    I presuming you're trolling. But, I'll bite anyway....

    Koryu bujutsu. I practice one, Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu. Use the google.
    Fixed that for you.

    Don't feed the Devil.


    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

  8. CrackFox is online now
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 5:30pm

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     Style: Judo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by thrutch View Post
    Seriously - how is training to music a bad thing?
    Ever trained in a hall with a bums'n'tums fitness class going on in the next room?

    I'm so sick of that same bloody Shakira song being played over and over.
  9. Styygens is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 5:41pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Ever trained in a hall with a bums'n'tums fitness class going on in the next room?

    I'm so sick of that same bloody Shakira song being played over and over.
    Sounds fantastic... Tell me more...



    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

  10. CrackFox is online now
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 5:56pm

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     Style: Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    Sounds fantastic... Tell me more...
    Well we have these things called walls between the rooms, so all I know about what goes on there is that it involves a lot of Shakira and Maroon 5.

    Though before and after the class lets out we get a bunch of college aged girls in the corridor looking in at us. Usually when we're practising triangle chokes, or something equally dodgy looking.

    Do you think they would respect us more if they knew we used the word sankaku-jime to refer to the move?
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