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  1. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2012 6:52pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm prepared to concede Judo as an exception because of the widespread standardization of technique names that would otherwise be difficult to explain.

    I'm not convinced on Karate and other Japanese arts. Somebody mentioned international competition earlier. Really, (a) how many karateka compete internationally? (b) it doesn't make sense for millions? of karate kids to learn Japanese words because like three people in the world want to compete internationally and (c) if someone wants to compete internationally it will take them about a millisecond to learn to say stop and go in another language - be it Japanese or otherwise.

    I call Japanigans.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/03/2012 7:01pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Everyone is ignoring the OP by saying "it helps when I can't explain a technique and compete internationally." Cool, I can completely agree with this point.

    NO this is crap:
    we need to keep the tradition going otherwise we will eventually forget about all the honour and discipline and respect that comes with ju-Jitsu do you agree!
    No, an art will not lose any of these things because the words used aren't Japanese. If that happens, your school, students, and instructors are assholes.
  3. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2012 7:14pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To be clear- the OP's dojo we're talking about teaches in English with a Japanese word here and there, right?
  4. dewey is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2012 9:05pm


     Style: koryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I'm prepared to concede Judo as an exception because of the widespread standardization of technique names that would otherwise be difficult to explain.

    I'm not convinced on Karate and other Japanese arts.
    Not true for koryu...and your provisio for Judo also applies to the koryu. Per my previous post in this thread: let's take for example the very first technique of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu...Mae. Loosely translated, it means "forward." That doesn't even begin to describe the meaning, purpose or proper execution of the technique. Use the Youtubes and see for yourself. "Forward" only denotes the direction of attack...it doesn't describe what's going on or even how to do it.

    If I follow your train of logic, I should instead call Mae: "as you rise up from seiza, simultanously draw your sword in a rapid but controlled way and sever the entire bicept and most of the tricept of your attacker's right arm as well as deeply cutting his right pectoral muscle before he can draw his sword so as to render him lame, then finish him off with an overhead strike." Yeah, my honky Missouri-bred gaijin ass will stick with "Mae."

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Everyone is ignoring the OP by saying "it helps when I can't explain a technique and compete internationally." Cool, I can completely agree with this point.
    A common vocabulary unites all practicioners of a martial art or a combat sport. The use of the Japanese in traditional Japanese martial arts provides the Linga Franca for all. Using Japanese terminology is not bad in itself, it's just when the "Last Samurai" get involved and try to out Japanese the Japanese. We're all gaijin. Just gringos and honkys. As long as you're not comical or otherwise over-the-top about it, that's what counts.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/03/2012 9:35pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dewey View Post


    A common vocabulary unites all practicioners of a martial art or a combat sport. The use of the Japanese in traditional Japanese martial arts provides the Linga Franca for all.
    We've already heard anecdotes that this is debatable. I'm not arguing for or against its use. I'm saying it is ridiculous to say you are losing honor, respect, tradition, culture, history or anything else if your school teaches in your primary language.
  6. dewey is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/03/2012 10:20pm


     Style: koryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    We've already heard anecdotes that this is debatable. I'm not arguing for or against its use. I'm saying it is ridiculous to say you are losing honor, respect, tradition, culture, history or anything else if your school teaches in your primary language.
    I completely agree. I apologize for not clarifying my position in my last post.

    It's only the "Last Samurai" at the local strip-mall Krotty dojo that sees not using the Americanfied-Japanese lingo as losing honor, respect, tradition, culture, history or blah, blah blah. They have no direct connection to their supposed Japanese-Okinakawan roots. They don't get it. They invented their own fiction. Kind of like the SCA folks.

    Per my previous posts in this thread, as a koryu practicioner, I use the Japanese nomenclature merely for a lack of a better expression in the vernacular as well as deference to my ryu. I am, and will always be, a Missouri gaijin/honky/gringo.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/03/2012 10:31pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dewey View Post
    I completely agree. I apologize for not clarifying my position in my last post.

    It's only the "Last Samurai" at the local strip-mall Krotty dojo that sees not using the Americanfied-Japanese lingo as losing honor, respect, tradition, culture, history or blah, blah blah. They have no direct connection to their supposed Japanese-Okinakawan roots. They don't get it. They invented their own fiction. Kind of like the SCA folks.

    Per my previous posts in this thread, as a koryu practicioner, I use the Japanese nomenclature merely for a lack of a better expression in the vernacular as well as deference to my ryu. I am, and will always be, a Missouri gaijin/honky/gringo.
    Gotcha and I do not have a problem with this at all. Like you, I can't stand Asiaphiles. The OP sounds like one.
  8. whatever123 is online now

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 12:19am


     Style: KK TKD GJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I'm prepared to concede Judo as an exception because of the widespread standardization of technique names that would otherwise be difficult to explain.

    I'm not convinced on Karate and other Japanese arts. Somebody mentioned international competition earlier. Really, (a) how many karateka compete internationally? (b) it doesn't make sense for millions? of karate kids to learn Japanese words because like three people in the world want to compete internationally and (c) if someone wants to compete internationally it will take them about a millisecond to learn to say stop and go in another language - be it Japanese or otherwise.

    I call Japanigans.
    All of the major Kyokushin groups has multiple international championships.
  9. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 1:02am


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dewey View Post
    They have no direct connection to their supposed Japanese-Okinakawan roots.
    Yeah, it's a little different with JSA. In Canada and the US, most of the top kendo and iaido instructors are Japanese immigrants, so there is a real strong connection there. We also pretty regularly have seminars with guys from Japan with little or no English.
  10. Bondy8 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 5:27am

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     Style: Goshin Kempo Ju Jitsu

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Everyone is ignoring the OP by saying "it helps when I can't explain a technique and compete internationally." Cool, I can completely agree with this point.

    NO this is crap:
    No, an art will not lose any of these things because the words used aren't Japanese. If
    that happens, your school, students, and instructors are assholes.
    I don't expect everybody to learn the entire Japanese language just the basic etiquette and throws and locks.
    As for tradition we must keep up the basic mat etiquette for example rai onto and of the mat , not coming onto the mat until invited.
    These things need to be upheld , I once went to a class and I entered the class where they were playing"number of the beast" by iron maiden this was just not right.
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