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  1. JPhoenix is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 3:07pm


     Style: Karate, Xingyiquan

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bondy8 View Post
    When I started Ju-Jitsu I really enjoyed not just doing the physical part but learning the history and language it made it more than just a martial art for me and I think if classes just focus on the physical we will eventually lose the History.
    I can agree with liking it as more than a martial art. Some people want more than that and there is nothing wrong with that. I am worried how accurate the history is. Many times I've heard highly inaccurate historical details. If the teacher really studies the history and lets students know that part of their time will be spent learning history instead of training, I would have no problem with them teaching it.
  2. judojeff is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 3:15pm


     Style: Judo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    I like learning the "official" names of moves is that it makes it easier to consistently transfer knowledge from one school or style to the next.
    This is a good point, having a standard name for moves seriously cuts down on possible confusion between schools. Being able to go to most any judo school and have a common vocabulary is a huge bonus. But that common vocab could be in any language and we would not lose the history of judo, the founder and historical figures would not change if we all decided to use german instead of japanese.

    If the history and the philosophical aspects of an art interest you that's all well and good but changing a fairly minor aspect of the art (names of moves) will not take away those aspects.
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 3:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nein.

    Absolutely no Japanese should be taught in anyplace calling itself a

    DOJO.

    No irony whatsoever. None.
  4. Rivington is offline
    Rivington's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 3:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Similar issues come up in CMA. What is the English word for peng? "Ward off" is a typical translation, but that obscures as much as it illuminates. A bit of practice and a number of explanations are required to "get it", but once gotten a taiji player can go anywhere in the world and get what people mean by peng.
  5. judojeff is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 3:39pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mildly off topic question for the sambo guys on the forum, do you/your teachers use russian names for techniques?
  6. jdempsey is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 3:46pm


     Style: lazy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by doofaloofa View Post

    I also think expecting young children to learn Japanese nomenclature is unhelpfull and distracting
    I studied jjj as a kid and i can attest to this ^^^. The terminology was confusing distracting and definitely unhelpful. Frustrating and off putting too seeing no talent kids grading ahead of me because I couldn't grasp the language.
  7. Bondy8 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 5:38pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Goshin Kempo Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    You're a Japanophile. I'm not knocking you for that, but understand it doesn't make you a better martial artist. It's just language. And history can be learned in any language. The idea that you have to count in Japanese to learn the history of martial arts is just an excuse to indulge your Japanophilia.

    I think the importance of history in martial arts training is a completely separate discussion. But regardless of where you stand on the importance of history - it can be learned in any language.
    .
    I have the privilege to train with some great instructors in the BJJAGB and I really enjoy every aspect of Ju-jitsu from the katas to using all the traditional weapons,I also like the history of where they came from, I know that learning the language and history doesn't make you a better Martial artist but it gives you an insight into how some of the techniques worked back in the day
  8. Devil is offline
    Devil's Avatar

    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 6:41pm

    supporting member
     

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bondy8 View Post
    .
    I know that learning the language and history doesn't make you a better Martial artist but it gives you an insight into how some of the techniques worked back in the day
    Which is necessary why? Boxing originates from ancient Greece. Do you need to study Ancient Greek to throw a jab? No.

    It's fun to you. You like it. That's where the need to use Japanese terminology begins and ends. Don't stretch for further reasoning.

    And if you want to argue the value of using the terminology, defend your original position that breaking from tradition will result in the loss of honor, discipline and respect. Japanese words make you a better martial artist. That's exactly what you were implying in your original post. Don't backpedal.
  9. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 6:51pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I enjoy learning the terminology of judo. I also appreciate the fact that much of it is very systematic and is not merely more precise than generic terms like "hip throw" (which one?), but also fits together in a logical system so that, with a few stems like o/ko, uchi/soto, harai/kari/nage, &c., it's easy and logical to learn terminology for new techniques. I value the fact that some of the words even provide clues to proper principles (e.g. harai, kari, otoshi).

    I don't for a moment imagine that I couldn't learn the same physical movements and applications without that terminology, though; and although I enjoy the fact that these terms are in Japanese, the same pragmatic values could presumably be found in an English-language terminology system if it were equally systematic. (And, well, lots of judo terminology obviously isn't. Ouchi gari -- got it. Yama arashi -- huh?)
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  10. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    12/02/2012 7:03pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bondy8 View Post
    .
    I know that learning the language and history doesn't make you a better Martial artist but it gives you an insight into how some of the techniques worked back in the day
    No, it really does not. Looking at old books, videos or actually becoming fluent would give you some insight into how things worked. Counting to ten and learning the names has no appreciable affect on historical techniques..
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