Should we still teach Japanese in the dojo?

**doofaloofa** · Posted On: 12/05/2012 2:36pm

All those stupid foreigners should shut up and learn english for fucks' sake

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 12/05/2012 3:49pm

Originally Posted by doofaloofa

All those stupid foreigners should shut up and learn the Queen's English from Americans.

Quite.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 12/05/2012 4:36pm

Seriously, why the **** is this thread still going on?

Are you all that fucking stupid?

/looks over names of posters.

Never mind.

Carry on.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 12/05/2012 8:17pm

Originally Posted by Bodhi108

Seriously, why the **** is this thread still going on?

Are you all that fucking stupid?

/looks over names of posters.

Never mind.

Carry on.

We are indeed all that fucking stupid.

You, to your great credit, aren't posting in this thread.

If you were, we'd still all be posting as well, and it would thus never, ever end.

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 12/09/2012 1:14am

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

We are indeed all that fucking stupid.

You, to your great credit, aren't posting in this thread.

If you were, we'd still all be posting as well, and it would thus never, ever end.

just wait for him to post again. then you GOT HIM!!!!

**doofaloofa** · Posted On: 12/09/2012 7:10am

These days judo is an international sport and I don't think it can be claimed by Japan anymore than football can be claimed to be English

So...Esperanto it is

"took him down with granda ekstere rikoltos and finished the fight with ariergardon nuda estrangular FTW"

Vi estas kun mi?

**SpamN'Cheese** · Posted On: 12/09/2012 1:59pm

Originally Posted by Batman Smells

These days judo is an international sport and I don't think it can be claimed by Japan anymore than football can be claimed to be English

So...Esperanto it is

"took him down with granda ekstere rikoltos and finished the fight with ariergardon nuda estrangular FTW"

Vi estas kun mi?

My girlfriend is already trying to teach me Portuguese. You're killing me here!

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 12/09/2012 2:23pm

Originally Posted by SpamN'Cheese

My girlfriend is already trying to teach me Portuguese. You're killing me here!

No. She is.

**DARPAChief** · Posted On: 12/09/2012 7:36pm

Originally Posted by dewey

A common vocabulary unites all practicioners of a martial art or a combat sport. The use of the Japanese in traditional Japanese martial arts provides the Linga Franca for all. Using Japanese terminology is not bad in itself, it's just when the "Last Samurai" get involved and try to out Japanese the Japanese. We're all gaijin. Just gringos and honkys. As long as you're not comical or otherwise over-the-top about it, that's what counts.

As a Japanese speaker who's lived and will live again in Japan, I would hesitate to identifying myself as a gaijin anytime, anywhere, because a) I'm not always in a foreign place, and b) the term itself has some baggage. In truth, it's more analogous to "outsider", and indeed before modern times (and even sometimes today) "Gaijin" would denote outsiders more or less exclusively. Perhaps you've heard of "Gaikokujin"; this is literally "foreigner" in our colloquial sense of the term, and you can expect friendly and mindful Japanese to address you in this way.

All of this has got to be at least a little condescending. However, you yourself said "we're all gaijin", and I had to know whether or not you appreciated the self-deprecating ramifications of that statement, especially for someone who resides in their own homeland and practices Koryu Budo. What with the seitei-ification of Iai in modern times, I don't know how "old school" this particular group of yours is, but members of a ryuha are generally a tight-knit group akin to what could be called an extended family. How miserable would it be to be an outsider in your own family? That's a red flag if there ever was one.

I think issues like this could be illustrative of the dilemma that comes with adopting something foreign, and how something as idiosyncratic as Japanese Budo can be compromised when taught on a large scale. As far as I can tell, this is a culture and pedagogy purpose-built for small groups, and the proof is in the pudding; you can look at three separate lines of Takenouchi Ryu that have preserved the core of their traditions for centuries in trying conditions, look to survive centuries more. I wonder how modern Budoka of the early 20th century would identify with their arts today.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 12/10/2012 3:32pm

Originally Posted by DARPAChief

I think issues like this could be illustrative of the dilemma that comes with adopting something foreign, and how something as idiosyncratic as Japanese Budo can be compromised when taught on a large scale. As far as I can tell, this is a culture and pedagogy purpose-built for small groups, and the proof is in the pudding; you can look at three separate lines of Takenouchi Ryu that have preserved the core of their traditions for centuries in trying conditions, look to survive centuries more. I wonder how modern Budoka of the early 20th century would identify with their arts today.

The ones involved with Karate might identify that particular MA as something some Japanese adopted from foreign sources (a common-enough practice in Meiji- and post-Meiji jidai Japan). As well, they apparently decided to build a pedagogy suitable for larger groups, if the drills of Shotokan are any indication.