"Boxing vs. the savate" in 1899

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:21pm

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

I have however seen a few vids of savate, the ones I have seen have alot of side kicking from a side stance which seemed to be similar to tkd. But I will watch this one as soon as I get home.

The savate stance is basically the same as the boxing stance actually. You'd get that even from the Human Weapon episode in fact.

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:22pm

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

From these vids it looks like they added boxing to it, but I thought originally it was feet only. Didn't the French come up with it because they refused to box the same way as the English?? And yes I have seen a few tkd places that use boxing, granted they are few.

No, there was a law in France declaring that hitting someone with a closed fist was considered "using a deadly weapon"

Boxing was added between 1830 and 1840 to Savate.

- Competitions are 50% boxing and 50% kicking
- The full scope of English Boxing is used
- No clinching
- More "squared" position towards your opponent compared to Taekwondo
- Shoes and Boxing gloves
- sweeps, kicks below the waist
- constant changing between orthodox and unorthodox guard

**DdlR** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:23pm

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

Ok so wait, I got that vid to load, but just no. It's human fucking weapon for christs sake. That's the "documentary" you want me to watch hahahahahaha. That fucking show bloats every martial art out of proportion. And no watching it I don't see a difference from tkd, in fact in probably matches their tkd episode.

You said several times that you didn't know enough about savate to be able to distinguish it from TKD; the Human Weapon documentary really should be sufficient, assuming that you know enough about TKD to be able to distinguish it from, say, Kyokushinkai.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:25pm

I'm pretty sure that Human Weapon was tailor made for people who can't tell the difference between TKD and savate, so enjoy :)

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:26pm

Originally Posted by Permalost

The savate stance is basically the same as the boxing stance actually. You'd get that even from the Human Weapon episode in fact.

It seems a little more side facing from the vids, but you would probably know more about it than me. I will not address human weapon lol. Is there any differences to the kick mechanics?? I am somewhat interested in learning more about this style.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:36pm

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

Is there any differences to the kick mechanics?? I am somewhat interested in learning more about this style.

Well they use some kicks where the leg is lifted, and you slide forward on the standing leg as you extend your leg. This isn't really common in TKD kind of kicks- they more commonly skip forward with the back leg just before kicking in order to cover the ground. Its especially well adapted to low side kicks but those aren't allowed in TKD. This is also a kicking method that the Dog Brothers appropriated for Kali Tudo because it can be used to off-angle then crash in. The way it is delivered is in a circular manner not normally done with TKD side kicks. I'm guessing it came from Marc Denny who learned it from Dan Inosanto who picked it up in JKD.

They also kick with shoes rather than barefoot like TKD, so they kick differently. This also leads to some kicking tactics of driving the point of the foot around a shielding position, something I haven't seen in TKD.

My favorite savate learning resource is a Panther Production 10 tape set about savate, by Salem Asli (sp?). Good info, and graphic demos of a French man jump-kicking 80s French thugs while dressed like Speed Racer.

**captainbirdseye** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:39pm

Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs

No, there was a law in France declaring that hitting someone with a closed fist was considered "using a deadly weapon"

Boxing was added between 1830 and 1840 to Savate.

- Competitions are 50% boxing and 50% kicking
- The full scope of English Boxing is used
- No clinching
- More "squared" position towards your opponent compared to Taekwondo
- Shoes and Boxing gloves
- sweeps, kicks below the waist
- constant changing between orthodox and unorthodox guard

I'm not sure if I'm remembering this right, but is it correct that you have to throw a certain number of kicks to punches?

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:41pm

Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs

No, there was a law in France declaring that hitting someone with a closed fist was considered "using a deadly weapon"

Boxing was added between 1830 and 1840 to Savate.

- Competitions are 50% boxing and 50% kicking
- The full scope of English Boxing is used
- No clinching
- More "squared" position towards your opponent compared to Taekwondo
- Shoes and Boxing gloves
- sweeps, kicks below the waist
- constant changing between orthodox and unorthodox guard

Thanks this post helps alot. Sorry if I seemed trollish, old habits and such.

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:45pm

Kamel Chouaref has also got a great DVD of La Boxe Française - Savate.

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:51pm

Originally Posted by captainbirdseye

I'm not sure if I'm remembering this right, but is it correct that you have to throw a certain number of kicks to punches?

About 50/50.
The refs won't make a big deal if it's 45/55, but once they see it's 40/60, you will get a warning of "dominace de pied/dominace de poing (domination of feet/domination of fists).
Also they watch the correctness of your technique. Throwing an half assed roundhouse will not score any points, even if it connects.
There are three refs in every match, one inside that guides the fight and two outside that observe technique and frequency between fists and feet.