"Boxing vs. the savate" in 1899

[DdlR]

The boxing competition between Jerry Driscoll and M. Charlemont, which took place here yesterday, ended in a fiasco. Driscoll boxed in the English fashion, while Charlemont, wearing ordinary walking boots, used his hands and feet indifferently. The alleged sportsmen who organised this exhibition considered that it would decide the superiority of one style of boxing over the other, and it was surprising to hear them explain how, without the slightest doubt, Driscoll’s legs were to be broken by the first kick from his terrible adversary.

The fight took place in a riding school in the Rue Pergolese, and during six rounds Driscoll knocked his man all over the ring. In the seventh he received a foul kick in an extremely dangerous and sensitive spot, expressly forbidden by the rules, and was counted out.

More at http://www.bartitsu.org/index.php/20...e-savate-1899/

[JBliss]

" . . . Moreover, we are not fighters, there not being any in France. We are professors, which is entirely different.”[/url]

Revealing

[Matt Phillips]

"I must admit that these English beggars are better trained than we are. They have had a hundred fights in their lives, we not one. They know how to resist blows, which is one of the elementary principles of their training. We do not like blows."

I had no idea there were no Savate matches in the early days of the style

[DdlR]

He meant that there was no culture of professional prize-fighting in France - professionalism vs. amateurism being a serious debate at the time, tied in with class-consciousness, etc.

[Matt Phillips]

He meant that there was no culture of professional prize-fighting in France - professionalism vs. amateurism being a serious debate at the time, tied in with class-consciousness, etc.

So there were Ammy contests?

[DdlR]

So there were Ammy contests?

Yep. Castere's comment was also tied in with a major debate going on in French kickboxing circles at that time re. levels of contact; one side in the argument wanted to keep to the status quo, which was basically very light contact (assaut), and the other side wanted full-contact, inspired by British and American boxing. The debate had high stakes because there were potentially lucrative contracts for instructors via the education system, etc. As it turned out, though, the First World War almost killed off that whole generation of savateurs.

[Gluckmann]

Damn, Le Figaro is old.

Nice article by the way. Good to see that these guys were learning off each other even before the last century. It's a good sign for WMA I think.

[Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs]

So there were Ammy contests?

There were and there are (only) Amateur contests.

There's never been professional Savate competitions, even today nobody gets paid for fighting in Savate tournements.
That's why a lot of good Savateurs make the switch to Muay Thai and Kickboxing.

[judojeff]

There were and there are (only) Amateur contests.

There's never been professional Savate competitions, even today nobody gets paid for fighting in Savate tournements.
That's why a lot of good Savateurs make the switch to Muay Thai and Kickboxing.

So do you feel that this is putting savate at a disadvantage as far as popularity? From what I have seen savate looks pretty bad ass but I was totally unaware of it until coming to this site. Giving its notable practitioners a financial benefit for staying with savate seems to me like the most reasonable way to help increase its popularity.

[Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs]

So do you feel that this is putting savate at a disadvantage as far as popularity? From what I have seen savate looks pretty bad ass but I was totally unaware of it until coming to this site. Giving its notable practitioners a financial benefit for staying with savate seems to me like the most reasonable way to help increase its popularity.

I personally prefer how it is today. Just fighting for the glory itself.

If you look at all the sports, not just Combat Sports, where money was added into the equation, it just changed the sport into a business.

Yes, professionals can lift a sport to a higher level, but they can also damage a sport (not exiting fights due to over calculating/strategy fighting) and lets not forget the increase of anabolics use once there's money involved or outside groups (IOC) that take over who are more interested into their own agenda than that of the sport.

Yes, our top level Savateurs have "shorter" careers in Savate because they switch to Muay Thai or Kickboxing, but they also come back to Savate after their competition career has finished and they start schools.
The reasons:
- The image of Savate, it's considered nowadays the most upperclass form of the Kickboxing family.
- The training method itself: from day one, you will switch constantly between orthodox and unorthodox stands. That's why we don't speak of jab and cross, but of left direct and right direct (the position of the feet determens it your "left direct" is a jab or a cross).
The difference between a Savateur's weak and strong side is minimized to such a level that with some you can't see if they are a natural southpaw or not and that's something that you will only find in Savate training.