Head Instructor doesn't remember his teacher's name?

**Silo42** · Posted On: 1/04/2013 10:07am

I found more info. An assistant instructor at the school, Shane Quave,
http://www.knightflowermartialarts.c...structors.html

Has some more info out there. He is a 2nd dan in Ju Jutsu under Larry L. Flournoy:

http://www.myspace.com/mainlinejudophoenixville/blog

"Shane Quave was recently tested and promoted to Nidan (2nd degree black belt) in the art of Goshen Ryu Jujutsu . Shane has studied Goshen Ryu Jujutsu for about 10 years under Sensei Flournoy, and it is through this interaction with Sensei Flournoy that we were able to relocate and join Sensei Flournoy in the Phoenixville dojo."

So, Goshen Ryu Jujutsu? Can anyone confirm this. Does this settle the matter? How does this fit in at all with his bio and the guy in the basement? Why isn't Goshen Ryu Ju Jutsu mentioned on his website (at least that I can see)?

Ok, found this about Goshen Ryu Ju Jutsu (spelling is off, it's Goshin, but can't find any "Goshen"):

http://www.goshin.org/

"Goshin Ryu was founded in 1987 by Steve Barnett at the request of students who were dissilusioned with the politics of Martial Arts. Goshin Ryu Jujitsu Kai, was purely a Jujitsu association. "Goshin Ryu International", is now a multi martial arts association and membership is open to all styles, clubs, associations and individuals.

We have affiliations and representatives around the world. Goshin Ryu International is a non profit making, non political organisation. Predjudice of any kind is strictly forbidden."

Interesting...so they accept anyone?????

**Cake of Doom** · Posted On: 1/04/2013 10:17am

I have heard of Goshin Ryu but not Goshen. Might be the same thing and I'm just being silly.

However, He wouldn't have been learning that back in the sixties as it wasn't founded till the late the late eighties (by a Brit). Could do with Rock Ape peeping in.

**Silo42** · Posted On: 1/19/2013 3:09am

Not sure if this is new or not but on the main page in very, very fine print it states:

http://www.knightflowermartialarts.c...me%20Page.html

"WE WERE THE PHILADELPHIA AREA’S FIRST KARATE SCHOOL ::: Skippack Club offers classes in: Karate (we are a Goshin school based in Shotokan style), Iaido (the art of drawing the samurai sword), Ju Jutsu (the traditional unarmed combat system of the samurai warrior -- originally spelled Jiu Jitsu), Ki Meditation (Your “Ki” is your inner energy, spirit, or life force. In China it is called “Chi”, as in Tai Chi. In India, yoga practitioners refer to it as “prana”.) [] At our Hatfield Club we offer classes in: Karate, and Aikido (Japanese martial art developed by Morihei Ueshiba. Aikido is often translated as "the Way of unifying life energy"or as "the Way of harmonious spirit." .) [] L. L. Flournoy, Sensei, the chief instructor of the Shuto Karate Clubs operates the Skippack dojo (martial arts training hall). He began teaching martial arts in Phoenixville and in Collegeville where he ran the Ursinus College Karate Club in 1972. [] R. J. Trotta, Sensei, is the head instructor at the Shuto Karate & Aikido Club, Hatfield dojo."

"GOSHIN" = modern, self defense methods of martial arts instruction
"DO" = added to the end of a martial art's name indicates that there is a strong philosophical component -- that it is a "way of life"

It clearly states they teach Ju Jutsu.

I don't think this was there before this thread but I could be wrong. Anyway the whole "Goshin" being a "modern martial art" could someone explain? Goshin Ju Jutsu= I simply say I know Ju Jutsu and so I have made up my own system? This seems extremely dubious, so I can just make up a curriculum and claim it to be Japanese Ju Jutsu and take money from people who believe they have learned from competent Japanese sources?

If this is true, any person off the street can open a "Japanese Ju Jutsu" dojo. Seriously am I missing something here? If you read above Mr. Larry Flournoy awarded a disciple a "2nd degree" blackbelt in Ju Jutsu...which means Flournoy must be a very high level black belt in Ju Jutsu...of his own making????? If he is making up his Ju Jutsu why claim the man in the basement theory?

The whole "Goshin Ju Jutsu" thing seems to be explained here by someone else. Not sure if it applies here but it still does not seem legit to me:

http://www.mizukan.org/goshin-jutsu.htm

**Silo42** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 2:25am

'64 (or later) trained in Karate to 1968 (while very young). Four years to become an
8th degree black belt by the American Self Defense Karate Association?

But wait, the American Self Defense Karate Association senior board members are himself and his top student.

http://www.knightflowermartialarts.c...sociation.html

**Silo42** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 2:26am

double post

**PeryStkl** · Posted On: 4/10/2013 5:17pm

I came across this thread when looking for info on knight flower martial arts. I could find nothing else on the internet even though the teacher claims 50+years of experience. The only thing that comes up is their own website and links off that.

Also, I read his bio about the mystery teacher and him getting his taekwondo black belt in one day because he was already a karate black belt. Is that normal? Anyway I could not find much except this thread and their own website. Glad I came across this.