Head Instructor doesn't remember his teacher's name?

[NeilG]

I can't likewise comment on the instructor's qualifications to teach the Seitei Iai however the ZNKR maintains all legitimate dan grades,

Only for people training in Japan. ZNKR is just another FIK-affiliated federation. Each country's federation is responsible for maintaining their own grades, there is no international registry maintained by FIK or ZNKR. As these guys are in the states, they would be affliliated with the AUSKF. I can speak from some authority on this as I'm the guy responsible for the books on this stuff in Canada (CKF).

However if you dig a little into their website you see that all they teach is 5 kata from Eishin Ryu, which is not necessarily FIK/ZNKR, could be ZNIR or legitimately independant. There's a lot more to Eishin Ryu than 5 kata, which implies very strongly to me that the instructor picked up a few kata from a book or seminar and has just been passing them along. You see quite a few karate clubs that do this to add some air of samurai bad-assery to the proceedings, they are usually not affiliated with anyone.

[Rock Ape]

Only for people training in Japan. ZNKR is just another FIK-affiliated federation. Each country's federation is responsible for maintaining their own grades, there is no international registry maintained by FIK or ZNKR.

Aah thanks for the clarification mate. I recall having to validate a kendoka's shodan when he joined my dojo (he didn't have his original certification as he'd been out of the game for a number of years) Come to think of it, since you mentioned the local federations, I'm guessing I contacted the BKA not FIK.

[NeilG]

Aah thanks for the clarification mate. I recall having to validate a kendoka's shodan when he joined my dojo (he didn't have his original certification as he'd been out of the game for a number of years) Come to think of it, since you mentioned the local federations, I'm guessing I contacted the BKA not FIK.

Yeah, in UK for kendo/ZNKR iai it would be generally be BKA unless he was affliated with those guys that broke away years ago (British Kendo Renmei). BKR != FIK but I understand they still have some OK people.

[judojeff]

Unless I missed something in that website I did not see judo or iaido on any of the class schedules of the three schools listed. Seems that they only teach karate, aikido, and ki ju jutsu. Although under the school history tab it mentioned that Flournoy took gold in the weapons division of a tournament doing a series of Iaido kata, nothing is mentioned about actual training in iaido.

[Cake of Doom]

I checked those too. Noticed lots of links to references but not a great deal in the actual teaching schedule.

I vote for resume padding with arts he has toyed with in the past and then a little association circle jerk.

[NeilG]

Unless I missed something in that website I did not see judo or iaido on any of the class schedules of the three schools listed.

Iaido and judo are both listed under "what we offer" although I can't find a schedule for anything specific. You can see some pictures where they are using shinai and bokken here.

[judojeff]

Iaido and judo are both listed under "what we offer" although I can't find a schedule for anything specific. You can see some pictures where they are using shinai and bokken here.

I did notice them under what we offer which was why I thought it was weird that I couldn't find either on a class schedule, however I did not see those pictures.

[Silo42]

From the page address in your first post. This does not prove or disprove his claims of learning Ju Jutsu but he did provide a name which takes care of this bit:-

It states (from:http://knightflowermartialarts.com/Work/flournoy5.html) :

"Now, before I tell you any more, let me say that the only reason I know how to spell all those Japanese names I’ve written to this point (other than Moto) is because I looked them up. These instructors, being somewhat renowned and having had many many students are all listed somewhere on the internet . Well, my next sensei was not famous. He had very very few students. And I can’t find his name on the internet. In fact, he spoke so little English that I’m not sure my ears ever really heard the correct pronunciation of his name. But, on a little street near China Town, Mr. M. Shuragowa (I doubt my spelling so I’m just going to call him Sensei.) taught jiu jitsu in the basement and back yard of his home."

To me it sounds like he doesn't know his teacher and is guessing at the name because he can't find it on the internet. There is no record of his teacher.

Also they state they teach Judo but I don't see where he was taught it except that he learned it out of a book (from:http://knightflowermartialarts.com/Work/flournoy.html) :

"Then one day mom came into the kitchen and handed me a book. American Combat Judo was its title and IT WAS JIU JITSU!"

I just think there are a lot of holes in the story...

[Silo42]

Also someone was saying they don't teach Ju Jutsu but they do privately as stated here:
http://knightflowermartialarts.com/W...ltraining.html

Here's something else they are teaching:
http://www.yinyangkumite.com/about_us.php

[Cake of Doom]

I have just finished reading his full bio and I have to say his Ju Jutsu story sounds like a boiled down, paraphrased and vague version of this one.

The thing I can't get my head round, is why would he do this? The only thing I can come up with is that he has mixed his Karate and Aikido, called it Ju Jutsu and a mysterious little Japanese man in a basement is the cover story.

Anyother thoughts folks?