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  1. #241
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    until the Japanese military stop using it, it is hard to separate those out who are showing support to the Japanese military and those who are celebrating their deeds during WW2.
    "Jeez, I can't tell if I should hate this guy or just dislike him."

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    "Jeez, I can't tell if I should hate this guy or just dislike him."
    The Picard-Riker double face palm may be appropriate in this instance.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewMurphy View Post
    The Picard-Riker double face palm may be appropriate in this instance.
    Thank you for not posting such a hurtful symbol.

  4. #244
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    despite waiting for babo78's longer response, i have yet to see a single person make a logical argument for why the rising sun flag should be held to a different standard than the US or UK flag.

    i presented my position, and no one has seen fit to show it to be logically incorrect, so i'm going to take that as a sign that people have been forced to admit through their silence that i am correct:

    • people have the right to be offended by anything they want, that's their business, but it's also their hang up.

    • there's nothing wrong with using the rising sun flag that isn't also wrong with using the US or UK flag, so anyone on a crusade against one may as well join the crusades against the others.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  5. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    ...people have been forced to admit through their silence that i am correct.
    I'd say "twist my arm", but I'm too busy putting together a combination Dixie-Union Jack T-shirt.

    Damned if they don't compliment each other nicely...

  6. #246
    goodlun's Avatar
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    I am going to start a Gi company called little boy wrestling jackets
    and this is going to be our logo

  7. #247
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd be very pleased to complain about a US or UK flag at any time. Indeed, the only patriotic-themed gimmick I like is the nickname "American Psycho"!

  8. #248

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    Most French Canadians do not know anything about history except if it concerns Quebec. It's a failure of our education system. The history curriculum over the years has been modified to such an extent by the separatist Parti Québécois that it is basically unrecognizable as anything but propaganda for secession. They did the same thing with college-level literature. The only thing about WW2 I learned in school was the conscription crisis in the province, which is exceedingly stupid.

    No way GSP intended to wear the Rising Sun flag such as it is. Yeah, it's a tacky gi for a French white guy to wear, but lots of weeaboos here in Quebec.

  9. #249

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    despite waiting for babo78's longer response, i have yet to see a single person make a logical argument for why the rising sun flag should be held to a different standard than the US or UK flag.

    i presented my position, and no one has seen fit to show it to be logically incorrect, so i'm going to take that as a sign that people have been forced to admit through their silence that i am correct:

    • people have the right to be offended by anything they want, that's their business, but it's also their hang up.

    • there's nothing wrong with using the rising sun flag that isn't also wrong with using the US or UK flag, so anyone on a crusade against one may as well join the crusades against the others.
    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you know the rising sun is not the Japense flag, and that the actual Japense flag was the flag in use to represent Japan during the entire time period of the use of the rising sun symbol.

    The Nazi party had that symbol, but they ALSO had the german flag.

    In the case of the German the flag was around long before the nazi party went invading. In the case of the Union Flag, it actually came about AFTER they did their invading. Like as an Irish person, I'm at times a bit iffy on the flag, but the flag wasn't made until long after they colonised Ireland.

    In the case of the US flag, it was sort of a bit of both (Though, really the US flag shouldn't have anything to do with anything before c1776), but again, it was used to represent the country, and not the regime.

    The Imperial Japanese Army became the official army 1871. And they spent the time period between that and world war 2 invading people a lot and crushing rebellions. While the imperialism certainly got much much worse in WWII, it didn't just begin then. It began with Meiji restoration, and the adoption of a national army in 1871, followed relatively shortly by the invasion of Taiwan in 1874. Sure, it took the Japense longer, but they had less of the benefits of industrialisation when they started then the nazi party did in 1920.

    Again, the rising sun symbol is more like the swastika: it was used to represent violent oppressive invading tyranny. But it was also used both before and after by other people who had nothing to do with it, and for reasons completely unrelated reasons.

    Now, I think it's stupid to say that because GSP used the symbol, HE is an asshole. He's just ignorant of the associations and/or is of the belief that the symbol has moved past its associations with that time period.

    And I also know you've already mentioned that the swastika can be inoffensive, depending on the context, so I'm not looking to prove you wrong on that or anything. Just making the point that it's a more appropriate comparison than the US or UK flag.

    So while I agree this falls into the category of semiotics changing, and people being able to believe anything they want, I disagree that there is no difference between the rising sun flag, and the flags of the US and UK.

  10. #250
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    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by han090 View Post
    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you know the rising sun is not the Japense flag, and that the actual Japense flag was the flag in use to represent Japan during the entire time period of the use of the rising sun symbol.
    both flags were in use, the armed forces flew the rising sun flag. the rising sun as a symbol has been around longer than since the meiji restoration by the way.

    The Nazi party had that symbol, but they ALSO had the german flag.
    what symbol, do you mean the swastika? you need to write more clearly if you want to make a point.

    In the case of the German the flag was around long before the nazi party went invading. In the case of the Union Flag, it actually came about AFTER they did their invading. Like as an Irish person, I'm at times a bit iffy on the flag, but the flag wasn't made until long after they colonised Ireland.
    the swastika was the symbol of the nazi party, not the army. the german flag *was* the flag of the army.

    yo do know that the irish aren't the only ones to take issue with the british empire and the union jack, right?

    US flag, it was sort of a bit of both (Though, really the US flag shouldn't have anything to do with anything before c1776), but again, it was used to represent the country, and not the regime.
    what are you talking about, you're not making a lot of sense here, is english your first language?

    atrocities were committed by the US army under the US flag. many people find the US flag offensive. my comparison makes perfect sense.

    The Imperial Japanese Army became the official army 1871. And they spent the time period between that and world war 2 invading people a lot and crushing rebellions. While the imperialism certainly got much much worse in WWII, it didn't just begin then. It began with Meiji restoration, and the adoption of a national army in 1871, followed relatively shortly by the invasion of Taiwan in 1874. Sure, it took the Japense longer, but they had less of the benefits of industrialisation when they started then the nazi party did in 1920.
    this has been discussed before. japan did terrible things (as did the UK and the US) so, what's your point?

    Again, the rising sun symbol is more like the swastika: it was used to represent violent oppressive invading tyranny. But it was also used both before and after by other people who had nothing to do with it, and for reasons completely unrelated reasons.
    huh? that makes no sense, but we have already discussed the fact that the rising sun is much more similar to the *iron cross* than the swastika.

    Now, I think it's stupid to say that because GSP used the symbol, HE is an asshole. He's just ignorant of the associations and/or is of the belief that the symbol has moved past its associations with that time period.
    AFAIK we have no idea what GSP feels about it, as only hayabusa has made a statement.

    And I also know you've already mentioned that the swastika can be inoffensive, depending on the context, so I'm not looking to prove you wrong on that or anything. Just making the point that it's a more appropriate comparison than the US or UK flag.
    you haven't proven a damn thing. i said that wearing the rising sun is exactly as questionable as wearing the US or UK flag, as all three flags offend people because and all three flags were flown by armies in times of war who did horrible things.

    So while I agree this falls into the category of semiotics changing, and people being able to believe anything they want, I disagree that there is no difference between the rising sun flag, and the flags of the US and UK.
    you need to work on how to build a proper argument, you haven't convinced me of anything.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

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