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  1. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 3:30pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What about using this symbol of plundering rapists?
  2. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 3:42pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    how about brown shirts, the nazis wore those, should no one ever wear a brown shirt? how far do you take it?
    A brown shirt is generic, the rising sun Imperial flag - not so much
  3. karma2343 is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 3:44pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing, nogiJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    so you feel the same way about the US & UK flags?

    how about brown shirts, the nazis wore those, should no one ever wear a brown shirt? how far do you take it?
    The different is that it represents a specific time period. The US and UK flags don't, though if there were a specific symbol associated with, say, the displacement of Native Americans, then yes, I'd absolutely be against it.

    And obviously not. A brown shirt is incredibly general, that would be like saying because they wore pants, it'd be oppressive to wear pants. The Rising Sun, on the other hand, is a very specific symbol for this time period.

    EDIT: Almost exactly what Goju-Joe said, haha.
  4. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 3:49pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by karma2343 View Post
    The different is that it represents a specific time period. The US and UK flags don't, though if there were a specific symbol associated with, say, the displacement of Native Americans, then yes, I'd absolutely be against it.

    And obviously not. A brown shirt is incredibly general, that would be like saying because they wore pants, it'd be oppressive to wear pants. The Rising Sun, on the other hand, is a very specific symbol for this time period.
    the brown shirt is a ridiculous example, obviously used to show you where your argument is headed. the fact that you consider it absurd proves my point.

    if you don't know that the union jack (current UK flag) depicts a particular time period of the british empire, then you don't know enough about UK history and need to pick up a book about the subject. it's offensive to lots of people.

    btw, joe, comparing the rising sun to the iron cross is a very good analogy. as a jew, my reaction to seeing someone sporting an iron cross is entirely dependent on context. i would expect a rational korean or chinese person to act the same way around the rising sun. context is key.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
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  5. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 4:07pm


     Style: Yudo, Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think many people are overlooking the fact that Rising Sun flag is technically not the flag of the nation but of the military. Specifically military flag of Imperial Army and Navy.

    The flag is associated just like Swastika regardless of people can argue about it because it didn't belong to particular party, was or wasn't flag of nation, etc.

    Bottom-line is that back then during Imperial Japan. Just like Germany during WW2, there was only one real political party in Japan. Just like there was only one real political party in Japan, which was the military. And Rising sun was their flag. It was also flown as war flag, just like Nazi flag was flown as war flag time to time.

    Under imperial flag, many war crimes were committed. Also lot of you are pretty farking stupid.

    Yes, somethings always offend someone. But let's take a step back and look at the context. Imperial flag doesn't offend just one country, or just some group of people... It offend many countries and large segment of the population of those countries. Add them up to give you a context.

    China, Taiwan, S.Korea, N.Korea, along with numerous south east Asian countries. That's a huge population of the world that find it offensive and equate it as hateful. So if you still take that into account and say Rising Sun is not offensive. Then I don't know what to say but I'm dissappointed, think you are dumb in this area as well as being very insensitive to I don't know maybe 20% of the world's population when you add up the countries that hate that farking flag and say 80% of the population of those countries.

    Edit: If Swastika only offended small group of people. Would people give a ****? Probably not. Just like Confederate flag offends small group of people now and nobody really gives a ****. Imperial flag offends countries and not small segment of the population of those countries. So yes, people give a ****.

    Personally, I have some bias because of my ethnicity but really the biggest folks who get offended by this are people like my grandmother who lived under Japanese Imperial rule and suffered. Who is now in being afflicted with dementia and we hate the fact that crap like this is going to get dusted under history. Which is pretty much intention of Japan as nation.
    Last edited by babo78; 3/25/2013 4:12pm at .
  6. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 4:07pm

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     Style: Improv comedy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    the brown shirt is a ridiculous example, obviously used to show you where your argument is headed. the fact that you consider it absurd proves my point.

    if you don't know that the union jack (current UK flag) depicts a particular time period of the british empire, then you don't know enough about UK history and need to pick up a book about the subject. it's offensive to lots of people.

    btw, joe, comparing the rising sun to the iron cross is a very good analogy. as a jew, my reaction to seeing someone sporting an iron cross is entirely dependent on context. i would expect a rational korean or chinese person to act the same way around the rising sun. context is key.
    I agree context is Key,

    I don't assume GSP has any ill will towards Koreans or Chinese, and I wouldn't assume a martial artist wearing a rising sun bandana is supporting Japanese imperialism, in fact I think I used to own one.

    anyways

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  7. karma2343 is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 4:13pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing, nogiJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    if you don't know that the union jack (current UK flag) depicts a particular time period of the british empire, then you don't know enough about UK history and need to pick up a book about the subject. it's offensive to lots of people.
    You've got a very good point here. I don't know enough about the history of the flag. I'll look into it, and if you're right specifically being based around that time period of imperialism (and I assume you are), then I'll be opposed to that too.
  8. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 4:36pm

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     Style: 血鷲

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by babo78 View Post
    I think many people are overlooking the fact that Rising Sun flag is technically not the flag of the nation but of the military. Specifically military flag of Imperial Army and Navy.
    That, or they know but don't care and think it looks good, say, on a gi.

    The flag is associated just like Swastika regardless of people can argue about it because it didn't belong to particular party, was or wasn't flag of nation, etc.
    It's just like the swastika in that both look awesome, especially on apparel or as tats.

    Bottom-line is that back then during Imperial Japan. Just like Germany during WW2, there was only one real political party in Japan. Just like there was only one real political party in Japan, which was the military. And Rising sun was their flag. It was also flown as war flag, just like Nazi flag was flown as war flag time to time.
    Also. Back then. There were. Executions. For overuse. Of sentence fragments.

    Under imperial flag, many war crimes were committed. Also lot of you are pretty farking stupid.
    An excellent, consistent linking of themes and ideas.

    Yes, somethings always offend someone. But let's take a step back and look at the context.
    Taking a step back and looking at the context offends me.

    Imperial flag doesn't offend just one country, or just some group of people... It offend many countries and large segment of the population of those countries. Add them up to give you a context.
    Simple addition? Sure: One offended country + several other offended countries = I don't give a ****. There's your context.

    China, Taiwan, S.Korea, N.Korea, along with numerous south east Asian countries. That's a huge population of the world that find it offensive and equate it as hateful.
    Fine. Let 'em hate. Everyone needs a hobby.

    So if you still take that into account and say Rising Sun is not offensive. Then I don't know what to say...
    ...but you say it so well.

    but I'm dissappointed, think you are dumb in this area as well as being very insensitive to I don't know maybe 20% of the world's population when you add up the countries that hate that farking flag and say 80% of the population of those countries.
    You're right. I should become sensitive, so I can write pure brilliance like you.

    If Swastika only offended small group of people. Would people give a ****?
    Some would. I don't. So far, nothing you've written indicates that I should.

    Just like Confederate flag offends small group of people now and nobody really gives a ****.
    You may not care about the honor of Glorious Dixie, but I do.

    Imperial flag offends countries and not small segment of the population of those countries. So yes, people give a ****.
    Some people do, others don't. So what? How about adding something new to the discussion, okay?

    Personally, I have some bias because of my ethnicity...
    Never would've guessed in a million years.

    ...but really the biggest folks who get offended by this are people like my grandmother who lived under Japanese Imperial rule and suffered. Who is now in being afflicted with dementia and we hate the fact that crap like this is going to get dusted under history.
    If an occurrence is forgotten, did it ever occur? The result, once the forgetting is complete, will be one thing less for people to be offended about. How can that be a bad thing? (Please don't serve up that "if-we-forget-it-it'll-happen-again" crap. Humans remember all sorts of massacres, and has that prevented them from continuing to massacre each other?)

    Which is pretty much intention of Japan as nation.
    Well, what are you doing here, then? Get on a plane, go to Japan, stand outside their government offices with a placard and yell slogans. Give 'em hell!

    (Or is your commitment to justice for the victims less than genuine?)
  9. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 7:07pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by babo78 View Post
    I think many people are overlooking the fact that Rising Sun flag is technically not the flag of the nation but of the military. Specifically military flag of Imperial Army and Navy.

    The flag is associated just like Swastika regardless of people can argue about it because it didn't belong to particular party, was or wasn't flag of nation, etc.

    Bottom-line is that back then during Imperial Japan. Just like Germany during WW2, there was only one real political party in Japan. Just like there was only one real political party in Japan, which was the military. And Rising sun was their flag. It was also flown as war flag, just like Nazi flag was flown as war flag time to time.

    it's still the flag of the japanese military, have they committed any war crimes lately? is the swastika being flown by the germans now?

    Under imperial flag, many war crimes were committed. Also lot of you are pretty farking stupid.
    yep, and for relatively short periods during the time that flag was flown, atrocities were committed under it. same for most flags. it's still the flag of the japanese military, have they committed any war crimes lately? is the swastika being flown by the germans now?

    you can make any associations you want, but that's *your* hang up, and it doesn't make it correct or applicable to anyone else.

    as to some of us being stupid, i hope you weren't referring to me, as from my comments you can tell that i am fairly well versed in the topic. hell, most people i speak to (including my wife, who is both a product of the japanese education system and is a pacifist) have *no idea* that the japanese army ran death camps in indonesia, working indonesians to death with little to no food.

    it's terrible that it happened, and it's a travesty that the subject isn't covered in japanese schools. i'm not sure how well the subject is even covered in the dutch schools to be honest, i should ask some friends who grew up there. the dutch did some really fucked up **** in the past, should we get angry when they fly their flag too?

    Yes, somethings always offend someone. But let's take a step back and look at the context. Imperial flag doesn't offend just one country, or just some group of people... It offend many countries and large segment of the population of those countries. Add them up to give you a context.

    China, Taiwan, S.Korea, N.Korea, along with numerous south east Asian countries. That's a huge population of the world that find it offensive and equate it as hateful. So if you still take that into account and say Rising Sun is not offensive. Then I don't know what to say but I'm dissappointed, think you are dumb in this area as well as being very insensitive to I don't know maybe 20% of the world's population when you add up the countries that hate that farking flag and say 80% of the population of those countries.
    that's great, but the fact that huge numbers of people who were colonized by the british empire hate the union jack doesn't make someone who wears one culturally insensitive or a racist.

    people all over the middle east love to burn the american flag, does that mean that people who wear or fly that flag are wrong?

    Edit: If Swastika only offended small group of people. Would people give a ****? Probably not. Just like Confederate flag offends small group of people now and nobody really gives a ****. Imperial flag offends countries and not small segment of the population of those countries. So yes, people give a ****.
    the swastika can be offensive, or it can be inoffensive. same for the confederate flag, context is important. but again you are picking symbols that were only used during extremely short periods by specific groups with a particular agenda. you know damn well the rising sun, like the union jack has a longer history than you're talking about.

    Personally, I have some bias because of my ethnicity but really the biggest folks who get offended by this are people like my grandmother who lived under Japanese Imperial rule and suffered. Who is now in being afflicted with dementia and we hate the fact that crap like this is going to get dusted under history. Which is pretty much intention of Japan as nation.
    you have every right to be offended. that's your business, but don't claim the rising sun is the same as the swastika, cause it's not.

    also you say, "...crap like this is going to get dusted under history. Which is pretty much intention of Japan as nation." which is total bullshit.

    you know the minds of the whole nation of japan? really? can you speak for all of asia too?

    you could say that since WWII the *government* of japan has tried to obscure the nasty side of their history, but the nation? what are you smoking, and where can i get some?

    paint with broad strokes much? i know it makes the arguments easier to make, but reality doesn't agree with you.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  10. karma2343 is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 7:49pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing, nogiJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by babo78 View Post
    Which is pretty much intention of Japan as nation.
    I was with you up until this point, this statement is ridiculous.

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