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  1. goodlun is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 6:59pm

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    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i find this whole thing to be rather interesting.

    I married into a Ukrainian Jewish Family that came over to the US during the Soviet era. My wife's parents take real umbrage with the fact that we buy German cars. Despite the fact that virtually nobody who works in the plants had anything to do with WW2. Even though Henry Ford is long dead and the company and current family harbors no ill will towards Jews. They still won't buy a Ford because Henry Ford was antisemitic.

    I find the concept of praising or punishing someone for what their ancestors did to be rather silly.

    Now I get we are not talking about this specifically, that indeed we are talking about a symbol that was used in horrible war crimes.

    I do see a difference can be made between the Swastika and the Rising Sun Flag. The Swastika has been specifically held onto by hateful people who choice to continue to use it to show their disdain and hate. Is the rising sun flag in particular on the Gi being used in this manner? I highly doubt it. Is it a bit insensitive most likely, was it an overt slight against the rest of Asia, I most certainly doubt it.

    Am I bringing anything new to this discussion? Nope but I had a few minutes to kill and felt like having my voice heard.

    Oh and that Gi is REALLY fucking ugly I don't think its going to sell because its so fucking ugly not because all of a sudden we are going to be come sensitive towards the Chinese and Koreans.
  2. EdgeWalker is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 8:18pm


     Style: Taekkyon Kudo MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    i find this whole thing to be rather interesting.

    I married into a Ukrainian Jewish Family that came over to the US during the Soviet era. My wife's parents take real umbrage with the fact that we buy German cars. Despite the fact that virtually nobody who works in the plants had anything to do with WW2. Even though Henry Ford is long dead and the company and current family harbors no ill will towards Jews. They still won't buy a Ford because Henry Ford was antisemitic.

    I find the concept of praising or punishing someone for what their ancestors did to be rather silly.

    Now I get we are not talking about this specifically, that indeed we are talking about a symbol that was used in horrible war crimes.

    I do see a difference can be made between the Swastika and the Rising Sun Flag. The Swastika has been specifically held onto by hateful people who choice to continue to use it to show their disdain and hate. Is the rising sun flag in particular on the Gi being used in this manner? I highly doubt it. Is it a bit insensitive most likely, was it an overt slight against the rest of Asia, I most certainly doubt it.

    Am I bringing anything new to this discussion? Nope but I had a few minutes to kill and felt like having my voice heard.

    Oh and that Gi is REALLY fucking ugly I don't think its going to sell because its so fucking ugly not because all of a sudden we are going to be come sensitive towards the Chinese and Koreans.
    the Rising Sun Flag IS equivilant to the Swastika, only in present tense. It is the very symbol of Japanese imperialism. When people think of WW2 they tend to only remember Euroupe, but Asia was also a very miserable place under Japanese rule.

    Seriously, if GSP plasters a Hakenkreuz on his gi, the reaction would have been much different.
  3. goodlun is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 8:40pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EdgeWalker View Post
    the Rising Sun Flag IS equivilant to the Swastika, only in present tense. It is the very symbol of Japanese imperialism. When people think of WW2 they tend to only remember Euroupe, but Asia was also a very miserable place under Japanese rule.

    Seriously, if GSP plasters a Hakenkreuz on his gi, the reaction would have been much different.
    That is because the Hakenkreuz is still used by racist radicals as a symbol of hatred in the West.

    Is their still Japanese people still using the rising sun flag saying hey we should go invade Korea and do horrible unthinkable things to them? Our their Japanese hate groups that still fly this flag and use it as a symbol of their hate towards Koreans and Chinese peoples?

    I live in the west, where we lump all of you guys together like one giant culture. Most of us can't tell any major differences between the Laotian, Korean, Cambodian, Thai, Vietnamese, Malaysian, Burmese, and Chinese cultures. Pretty much as most of the west is concerned you all one giant country.

    Don't worry its not just you guys, I am sure we would be even more hard pressed to tell you the difference between the countries of North East Africa, The Middle east, and the near east as well.

    Basically if a bunch of white dudes don't live there we don't really care.

    So basically what I am saying is if this symbol is still being used specifically as a hate symbol the majority of those in the west don't have a freaking clue, if it actually still is being actively used as a hate symbol and you not just being sensitive to past imperialism please do educate us by pointing to hate groups that are using the symbol.
  4. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 8:53pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    ...please do educate us by pointing to hate groups that are using the symbol.
    Yeah, I'm doing brutal warm-up reps in order to be properly ready to...CARE.

    I'm gonna fucking CARE about hate-groups, bitches.

    Actually, I'm gonna care about whether or not the hate symbols are fucking aesthetic.

    Otherwise, they're no better than hippie-protestor chants and placards...and that's about as pointlessly-shitty as you can get.

    Gonna draw a Rising-Sun? Do it well.

    Wanna sketch a Swastika? Better be worthy of Triumph Of The Will.

    Only wear jackboots if you're willing to fucking shine them.

    Historic hate, like any exercise, must be done with full attention to sharpness of detail.
    Last edited by Vieux Normand; 11/20/2012 9:01pm at .
  5. kcz is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 9:14pm

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     Style: Jiu-Jitsu

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1.) GSP gets paid to wear that gi, most likely getting free stuff to train in and could care less about the matter at hand.

    2.) Symbols have been used and reused through out history! (i.e. both iron cross and swastika) both ruined by the nazi party.

    3.) I have been to war its hell!!! Sometimes you do things in the name of patriotism that in retrospect you hate yourself for and completely regret. people need to remember the past not live in it. Every culture in this world has screwed over another or tried to destroy another. You guys act like you lived in that time period. But that's just my two cents. I love anyone who is willing to talk or roll to/with me and part friends even if we don't agree.
  6. goodlun is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 9:18pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Yeah, I'm doing brutal warm-up reps in order to be properly ready to...CARE.

    I'm gonna fucking CARE about hate-groups, bitches.
    Is it a symbol of hate or the symbol of a fallen empire?

    We are not having this conversation about British, French, Dutch, Spanish, Soviet or American Flags all of which have had extremely detestable atrocities committed under neath them.

    I know that the Japanese committed war atrocities on par with the Germans during WW2.

    The Swastika still represents an active agenda of hate.

    Does the rising sun flag do this as well?
  7. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 9:30pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Is it a symbol of hate or the symbol of a fallen empire?
    Yes, and yes. Beware false breasts and dichotomies, goodlun.

    We are not having this conversation about British, French, Dutch, Spanish, Soviet or American Flags all of which have had extremely detestable atrocities committed under neath them.
    That's because, aesthetically, their flags suck.

    I know that the Japanese committed war atrocities on par with the Germans during WW2.
    Everyone back then needed something to do with their spare time.

    The Swastika still represents an active agenda of hate.
    It "represents" whatever you want it to. Context: festooned on a Hindu or Buddhist temple, I will be be happy to assume they represent something else. This isn't unusual: there are hundreds of millions of Hindus and Buddhists.

    Does the rising sun flag do this as well?
    If you're someone named "Edgewalker", with too much time on your hands, it does.
  8. cualltaigh is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 9:43pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Though obviously not the one incorporated into the gi design, the rising sun has been the symbol of the Australian Army since Federation.

    http://www.army.gov.au/Our-history/T...sing-Sun-Badge
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.
  9. goodlun is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 9:53pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    That's because, aesthetically, their flags suck.
    [image]http://www.wwsport.com/Sta.DnnWebSer...uctID=ITLFSRUS[/image]
    Come on those look awesome

    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Everyone back then needed something to do with their spare time.
    Such as making leather wallets out of human skin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    It "represents" whatever you want it to. Context: festooned on a Hindu or Buddhist temple, I will be be happy to assume they represent something else. This isn't unusual: there are hundreds of millions of Hindus and Buddhists.
    I would argue that it represents what ever the person using the symbol wants it to represent.
    Yes context is 100% needed hence why this whole thread is a bit bogus I am rather certain that GSP isn't saying hey South East Asia **** You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    If you're someone named "Edgewalker", with too much time on your hands, it does.
    I find the whole thing interesting. I should be clear even though I do see it as a bit bogus myself I am not actually going to say he is wrong. I don't know enough about the cultural but hurt if you will. It is also why I am looking at the parallel that was chosen so that I can relate to his position.
    As a matter of curiosity I am trying to see if the Nazi symbolism does indeed parallel the rising sun symbolism in a contemporary context. As to better see his original point.

    As of right now I am thinking a different symbol might be needed as to me the two don't line up so well. However I could be persuaded with a compelling argument.
  10. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2012 9:59pm

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     Style: FMA, Ego Warrior

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I know that the Japanese committed war atrocities on par with the Germans during WW2.

    Does the rising sun flag do this as well?
    The Empire of The Sun made the Nazis look like wet nurses. Not to diminish the evil of the Nazis, but the Japanese really were that bad to the countries they occupied. The Nazis would murder your whole village and send your women off to rape camp with machine like efficiency but they did it with typical teutonic adherance to some sort of order. "Line them up and machine gun them". "Eveybody in the showers, then they go in the oven". It was workman like and they had a specific order they did things in for specific reasons. (Even if those reasons were bat **** crazy and wrong)

    The Japanese on the other hand would get downright "creative" with it.

    I mean, twisted mad science, industrial horror movie ****. Like a whole campus of doctors as sick as Mengele with a batalion for muscle. Here's just one little happy corner of their Empire of torture:
    http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/germwar/731rev.htm

    This links to the image of one of General Shiro Ishii's goons VIVISECTING a chinese infant.
    http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com...it-731?image=3

    These people would hand out candy to children in the chinese towns that was contaminated with some anthrax the cultured just for the occasion. Then later, when the young ones fell ill, tropps and doctors in gas masks would grab sick individuals off the street and start cutting them open them on the spot. That's just two sentences about one test in a whole campaign. It goes on and on and on...

    The scope and variety of atrocities commited by the Japanese is so beyond anything a sane person can imagine that you litterally will feel sick and have to take breaks researching the stuff. There's plenty of photo evidence that you will neve be able to un-see as well.

    This is IRL horror ****. That's why it's so swept under the rug and not just by the Japanese. You want to know what happened to general Shiro Ishii after the war?









    We gave him immunity and a job.

    http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/ishii.html
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