Judo, throws for tall newbs

**NeilG** · Posted On: 2/17/2013 12:03am

Originally Posted by BKR

In Judo, combination technques applied in the same direction is known as renzoku waza. Combination technique that changes direction is renraku waza.

So Kouchi-Ouchi would be renzoku waza. Kouchi Gari-Seoi Nage would be renraku waza.

Ben

I was talking about repeating the combination. Kouchi-seoi-nage doesn't make sense to me as oikomi-waza but repeatedly switching from kouchi to ouchi and back until one of them works does. Make sense to you?

**NeilG** · Posted On: 2/17/2013 12:04am

Originally Posted by BKR

In Judo, combination technques applied in the same direction is known as renzoku waza. Combination technique that changes direction is renraku waza.

So Kouchi-Ouchi would be renzoku waza. Kouchi Gari-Seoi Nage would be renraku waza.

Ben

I was talking about repeating the combination. Kouchi-seoi-nage doesn't make sense to me as oikomi-waza but repeatedly switching from kouchi to ouchi and back until one of them works does. Make sense to you?

**BKR** · Posted On: 2/19/2013 5:09pm

Originally Posted by Krijgsman

With BKR dropping serious knowledge, I almost feel silly saying anything in this thread. But, as a fellow tall noob, I figured it would be a good place to share any little things that have helped me.

This past practice we were working on a seoi o toshi/drop seoi nage. The instructer had us taking an almost wrestling-style penetration step to get deep so we would get low and sort of slide under uke.

While I am probably not qualified to be drop-kneeing anyone yet, the deep level changing step worked great for getting low enough to pull off the seoi nage on a shorter uke. I am going to try and work that level-change step (deep or otherwise) into other throws that I struggle to get low enough on (so... all of them).

Hope that is a helpful hint. I am sure our more experience Judoka can take the "get low" concept and run with it.

That's an entry method (hairikata) for the Seoi Otoshi.

Changing levels is part of basic Judo (and wrestling, etc.). You know, "Bend your knees", "gravity is your friend", and all that.

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 2/19/2013 5:12pm

Originally Posted by faixabranca

Ben, thank you again. I found a Koga video where he illustrates the same points. I was stepping too far into the triangle and hence not enough room.

A picture (or video) is worth a lot for sure.

Don't forget "angle of attack", going in straight up and down is an invitation to be countered. As is stiffing uke with your tsurite (one of my students got spectacularly countered with Tomoe Nage upon attempting Ouchi Gari with a stiff/straight lapel grip.

Ben

**BKR** · Posted On: 2/19/2013 5:16pm

Originally Posted by NeilG

I was talking about repeating the combination. Kouchi-seoi-nage doesn't make sense to me as oikomi-waza but repeatedly switching from kouchi to ouchi and back until one of them works does. Make sense to you?

No, it doesn't make sense, although the initial Kouchi Gari could be an oikomi entry (moving towards/driving towards uke).

Ben

**Krijgsman** · Posted On: 2/19/2013 7:44pm

Originally Posted by BKR

That's an entry method (hairikata) for the Seoi Otoshi.

Changing levels is part of basic Judo (and wrestling, etc.). You know, "Bend your knees", "gravity is your friend", and all that.

Ben

Yah, I get yelled at to bend my knees more, and that entry made me understand why/how to do it smoothly and effectively instead of doing the "turn in, bed knees, fall down" method that was failing me.

**BKR** · Posted On: 2/20/2013 3:31pm

Originally Posted by Krijgsman

Yah, I get yelled at to bend my knees more, and that entry made me understand why/how to do it smoothly and effectively instead of doing the "turn in, bed knees, fall down" method that was failing me.

Good, nothing like an effective teaching cue! I find a lot of students who have a hard time understanding how to lower their weight while moving. I usually have to resort to other exercises and drills to practice the coordination. I fact, I was doing that last night, as well as working on keeping the tsurite down (elbow down). Not much success without being able to do those two things automatically.

Ben

**faixabranca** · Posted On: 3/24/2013 10:10pm

I have more questions for BKR et al regarding Ouchi gari.

In particular, tsukiri. I've been told/heard 'be chest-to-chest' dozens of times. Yet with cross-stepping, my torso rotates some. Do I compensate for that by drawing uke's sleeve down (which also seems to rotate his torso into mine)?

**BKR** · Posted On: 3/26/2013 3:55pm

Originally Posted by faixabranca

I have more questions for BKR et al regarding Ouchi gari.

In particular, tsukiri. I've been told/heard 'be chest-to-chest' dozens of times. Yet with cross-stepping, my torso rotates some. Do I compensate for that by drawing uke's sleeve down (which also seems to rotate his torso into mine)?

That's a good question. I find that at first, most students have a problem with the rotation you note, in that they tend to go in with their right side forward, which tends to make tori vulnerable to being countered/avoided. I've struggled with it as a teacher and earlier in my Judo career personally.

1.) It's mostly a matter of training yourself to keep mostly forward.
a.) I do a drill against a wall in which I do the cross step/T-Step/or straight in step with the left leg (for RH throw) in which I (slowly at first) concentrate on keeping my chest/waist facing the wall. It's a bit of a twist, and you can hold it statically to stretch as well if you like. You have to adjust your distance so you are not too close to the wall. You can also practice the cutting motion to the side and then back in a circle.
b.) Working the drill I mentioned earlier, where you pul an uke who is in a wide shizenhontai forward with tsugi ashi while he/she resists to the rear, again concentrating on getting chest/waist forward. You can move on to uke being in migi or hidari shizentai (for a righty or lefty respectively). This drill works for Kouchi Gari as well.

2.) Its' also a matter of flexibility in your hips/waist/obliques/lower back. You can work on normal stretching stuff for that. I found that the various seated twists used in Hatha Yoga work pretty well, although I am sure you can do your own research on specific stretching exercises.

I have found that drawing uke sleeve back to my waist works well. i was originally taught to make an "A" pulling both hands down. If you watch most Japanese (higher level) doing ouchi gari, they seem to pull uke hand to their waist, which looks to me like it "pins" it in place so uke cannot escape as easily.

One thing about Ouchi is that it helps to get a reaction of uke to his rear (somehow) before entering.

I always say in Judo, do the opposite thing first. So to throw uke to the rear, move him forward/sideways/circle first. Even in sideways movement some action to the front is good/necessary, same with circling. You can use a slight shift of your weight to your rear (uke front) along with subtle hand action (bending wrists towards yourself) to elicit a reaction of uke to his rear quadrant.

**greg1075** · Posted On: 3/28/2013 12:21pm

Well, most Judo throws hinge on getting below someone's center of gravity, so a taller person is at a de-facto disadvantage against a shorter. Of course, a discrepancy in skills can make up for that, but I am presenting things in a vacuum here. If you are taller, you are going to have to get lower and be more explosive against a shorter person than you would against someone your size. Careful about Osoto-gari, there's a big gap between how it is taught in most places and the way it is actually (successfully) executed against a resisting uke or in competition...