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  1. faixabranca is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2012 10:43am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am indeed going to work on seoi. Also koshi guruma again as a stepping stone for harai.

    I might start with ouchi and kouchi gari as well.
  2. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/22/2012 3:24pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by faixabranca View Post
    I'm a kind of tall Judo newb at 6'1" and am looking for simple throws to focus on. I'm working at O-soto-gari, of course.

    I'd like to do seoi nage, but it's difficult because everyone else is 5'10", tops, except for an older shodan who just teaches. Drop seoi works but not in uchikomis.

    I've read tai-otoshi, uchi mata and harai goshi are good for taller guys. Are they too advanced for a one month newb like me?

    Thanks
    If you have a guy in your dojo who is 5'10", you have no excuse not to work on normal forward throws where you keep both feet on the ground. Which is what beginners should be focusing on regardless. As a newb, I doubt you can control your own weight and that of uke with both feet on the ground let alone with all of both your weight on your own single leg (without disaster ensuing at least).

    The problem most taller guys (and you barely qualify) with throws like O Goshi, Tsuri Komi Goshi, Seoi Nage is coordination, flexibility (hips/lower back/legs), and sometimes strength. It's the same for "short" newbs, but exacerbated when you uke is shorter by several inches. So you may need to work on those attributes outside of class. Without watching you, it's hard to say exactly which one other than coodination (which everybody struggles with, after all, you are learning new physical skills).

    Try to work with the taller uke on your forward throws. On guys that are a LOT shorter (under say, 5'8"), work on ashi waza. The core ashi waza are De Ashi Barai, Ouchi Gari, Kouchi Gari, and either or both Hiza Guruma and Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi). But work with the taller uke as well, as you have to adapt to different sizes of uke.

    If you compete, you will probably run into guys as tall as you are (assuming you are a man) fairly regularly, so it is very important you get the basic forward throws down very very well.

    Beginners also typically make the mistake of thinking they need to focus on particular throws. Well, yes, but, google Judoka UK's blog "The Difficult Way" for the ins and outs of "tsurikomi".

    If you are doing "drop seoi" as a beginner, stop right now. Period. Don't even go there.

    Tai Otoshi is a good throw, difficult to master though despite being taught to kids (who dont' do it very well very often). It is however the only forward throw, besides the legs apart variation(s) of Seoi Nage, that involves spreading out your legs. All others (not ashi waza) have your feet underneath you, and start from essentially the positioning for Tsurikomi Goshi (or close enough). Yeah, even Osoto Gari, believe it or not.

    *edit*
    I have a student who is 6'1", almost 6'2". He struggled for quite a while to get the basic forward throws down, or more accurately the basic position/coordination because there were no uke over 5'7"! But he kept at it, and now has really the best form of all of them, more or less. He makes it look easy now to do say Tsurikomi Goshi on shorter uke, me included at 5'7". So I know it's possible for you to do this as well.
    Last edited by BKR; 11/22/2012 3:29pm at . Reason: added comment
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. Sorekara is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2012 6:35pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Breathing, relaxing, and falling is what you should be focusing on rght now. Throws will come with time. Where I train, we tend to focus whiteb elts on Osoto and Ashi. Osoto works with all sizes.
  4. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/22/2012 11:29pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Osoto Gari is a common "newb" throw I don't teach to newbs. Again, the whole controlling two people's weight on one leg thing comes in to play. I do have a methodology for teaching it to beginners, but I haven't used it in a long time. I hate seeing "dueling Osoto Gari" contests.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. faixabranca is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2012 10:01am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BKR,

    First, thanks for all the information!

    I've decided to focus on keeping my feet under me for now. It's as if the Judo gods (Kano, Kimura et al) have heard my pleas and sent a guy who is 6'4" and 225-230lbs. I actually know him from my old kickboxing gym and he's a decent guy.

    I was working on koshi guruma this evening past. I think part of my problem, aside from co-ordination, is flexibility in getting under uke. I'm strong enough from my forays into strongman and olympic lifting in a conventional gym sense.

    I shall shift my focus on ouchi/kouchi gari and seoi nage as much as possible.
  6. adskibullus is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2012 12:18pm


     Style: Lifting heavy stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would second what BKR is saying he gave the same advise to me when I was a noob and it really helped. I'm 6ft 2 and used to be the tallest guy in my dojo. I started with o goshi then moved onto tsurikomi goshi which really helped me develop the right hand and body movement for my harai goshi later on.

    You'll find after a few months getting low and under uke will become much easier as you get stronger and more flexible , judo is a long and hard journey which makes the little successes more worthwhile.
  7. doofaloofa is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2012 12:53pm


     Style: mma

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    judo is a long and hard journey which makes the little successes more worthwhile.
    Amen to that!

    The handfull of proper judo moments that I have had make up for all the hours I have spent getting thrown around
  8. Sorekara is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2012 1:07pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Osoto Gari is a common "newb" throw I don't teach to newbs. Again, the whole controlling two people's weight on one leg thing comes in to play. I do have a methodology for teaching it to beginners, but I haven't used it in a long time. I hate seeing "dueling Osoto Gari" contests.
    I understand exactly what you're saying. The frustration of the Osoto dance is what helped me move forward.(no pun intended)
  9. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/23/2012 6:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ij
    Quote Originally Posted by faixabranca View Post
    BKR,

    First, thanks for all the information!

    I've decided to focus on keeping my feet under me for now. It's as if the Judo gods (Kano, Kimura et al) have heard my pleas and sent a guy who is 6'4" and 225-230lbs. I actually know him from my old kickboxing gym and he's a decent guy.
    for m
    I was working on koshi guruma this evening past. I think part of my problem, aside from co-ordination, is flexibility in getting under uke. I'm strong enough from my forays into strongman and olympic lifting in a conventional gym sense.

    I shall shift my focus on ouchi/kouchi gari and seoi nage as much as possible.
    That's good news, two uke closer to your size should work out nicely for all three of you. Be sure to work with the shorter guy, though, as it will show flaws in your form as you will HAVE to lower your weight correctly.

    The flexibility is a big issue. Most people don't really have (or need) much flexibility in t heir hips and lower back. You don't need to by super flexible, but the specificity of the position/movement in Judo makes it more important.

    Koshi Guruma is a nice throw, but I'd leave it for now if I were you. The hip placement is different (but important) and the arm around the shoulder hand position won't help you with normal tsurikomi action (you use it but it is harder to maintain control/contact because you remove your lapel hand). Save it for later.

    Seoi nage is good as well. I teach Ippon Seoinage because I find that students get confused by the hand positioning of the tsurite (lapel hand). O Goshi, Tsurikomi Goshi, then Seoi Nage once you get the tsurikomi action down. Move to Tsurikomi Goshi as quickly as you can, as O goshi has similar problem to Koshi Guruma (and Ippon Seoi nage) with the lapel hand releasing uke.

    Ouchi and kouchi are critical, put in time with them both and use then together as soon as possible. They also work well with the basic forward throws.
    Last edited by BKR; 11/23/2012 6:19pm at . Reason: left out a couple of words
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/23/2012 6:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by doofaloofa View Post
    Amen to that!

    The handfull of proper judo moments that I have had make up for all the hours I have spent getting thrown around
    Same for me for sure!
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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