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  1. #31
    NeilG's Avatar
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    Winning from turtle

    You think you should get to call points and penalties yourself?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    You think you should get to call points and penalties yourself?
    I do think I should be able to call penalties on myself and wave penalties of my opponent.

    I also think that things that set the tone and environment of the tournament are in large part up to those participating in it.

    Like I said I personally don't have an issue with the display it was a little over exuberant but the guy was just super stoked he won, to me he didn't cross the line of being disrespectful to the other guy other than being overly excited. He didn't get in the other guys face or do anything to disparage the other guy.

  3. #33
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    Sweet! I'm ruling that every opponent I have ever lost to had an inappropriate victory celebration, DQing them all retroactively. I'll be writing a series of letters requesting my gold medals tomorrow!

  4. #34
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    Some awesome victory celebrations on the full version of this DVD

  5. #35
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    Cool they have a newer one out I think i will have to pick it up

  6. #36
    NeilG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I do think I should be able to call penalties on myself and wave penalties of my opponent.
    Waive. That's an interesting proposition. It would, however have quite the impact on rule-setters. I speculate that certain rules violations would be routinely waived, much like a gimme putt in match play golf, and you would be regarded as a dick for not doing so Others might be waived by mass agreement, like the leg attack rule in judo. If as rules-makers you have certain goals in mind (as IJF supposedly does) then some of those goals could be inadvertently or deliberately nullified by the players.
    I also think that things that set the tone and environment of the tournament are in large part up to those participating in it.
    Yes but the rules, how they are enforced and how the officials conduct themselves have a large role to play in this. For judo we require a certain level of courtesy and formality between the players and also with officials. This is a good thing IMO and I am sad to see it decline lately (cf Riner).

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Others might be waived by mass agreement, like the leg attack rule in judo.
    This is something that I would very much like to see happen. Even though leg counter attacks are still allowed, one of my sensei's (who is the chairman of the state referee's commission) still strongly discourages this - primarily because of potential for misinterpretation and subsequent hansoku-make.

  8. #38
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Waive. That's an interesting proposition. It would, however have quite the impact on rule-setters. I speculate that certain rules violations would be routinely waived, much like a gimme putt in match play golf, and you would be regarded as a dick for not doing so Others might be waived by mass agreement, like the leg attack rule in judo. If as rules-makers you have certain goals in mind (as IJF supposedly does) then some of those goals could be inadvertently or deliberately nullified by the players.
    Yes but the rules, how they are enforced and how the officials conduct themselves have a large role to play in this. For judo we require a certain level of courtesy and formality between the players and also with officials. This is a good thing IMO and I am sad to see it decline lately (cf Riner).
    I think the a big part of the problem is we seem to have a pretty big disconnect from the rule setters and the competitors. The competitors should certainly be more involved in the rule making and rule changes.

    I would think most people think the atmosphere should be respectful and that the officials should be treated with respect. A little post win exuberance is to be expected your competing in a combat sport and are running fairly high. I do believe that the display shouldn't be directly disrespectful to the opponent IE corpse humping or getting all up in there face but one or two laps about the mat while lets out all that pent up excitement isn't a big deal.

  9. #39
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
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    Quote Originally Posted by r12477 View Post
    Current IJF rules (Article 27) includes scope for Hansoku-make to be applied at any time in the contest for "any action against the spirit of judo". You are correct that such decisions are made on a basis of "majority of three" in consultation between the referee and judges. This being said however, I don't think it would be too difficult to find referees and judges would would concur that the victory display in the video was against the spirit of judo.
    My experience is that it's pretty difficult to HSM someone for a victory display not directed at the opponent. Plus, if sore made has been called, it's even more difficult, but not impossible.

    I'd sure agree the display in this thread was against the spirit of Judo, but opinions and interpretations of the rules vary. I'm not sure what the current IJF take is.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I think the a big part of the problem is we seem to have a pretty big disconnect from the rule setters and the competitors. The competitors should certainly be more involved in the rule making and rule changes.

    I would think most people think the atmosphere should be respectful and that the officials should be treated with respect. A little post win exuberance is to be expected your competing in a combat sport and are running fairly high. I do believe that the display shouldn't be directly disrespectful to the opponent IE corpse humping or getting all up in there face but one or two laps about the mat while lets out all that pent up excitement isn't a big deal.
    We've seen some pretty serious victory celebrations, witness the videos posted with examples. It looks to me like the IJF is going with the "no disrespect towards opponent/referee" interpretation fairly literally. It has to do with intent, which can be difficult to judge.

    Mostly excess (whatever that means) celebrations are mostly in bad taste, but that will vary from person to person. I think I'd be pretty happy to win a gold medal at the olympics, and I can't really blame someone for celebrating some.

    I'd say that refraining from celebration until off the mat is a sign of self control, which is more in lines with Judo as budo.

    Not sure if many people these days in the west are practicing Judo as budo, though.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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