Dog Brothers, and on

**Fuzzy** · Posted On: 12/02/2012 7:55am

Why don't you show us a list of the schools you're considering?

I might at least be able to look into competition records for you.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 12/02/2012 10:55am

That's the problem; baring any life-shattering catastrophes, I'll be located in Bavaria come February, but I haven't been told the city yet by my employer.

Anyway, I am also in contact with Lonely, so, I should be able to find a good place. My problem, rather than to find a school - because freaks that like to hit others with sticks should be available in every town - is to get an idea what this is all about. Openly available sources (as in, not pirated) are scarce, and I perhaps simply need a coherent and unpretentious introduction about what to expect.

(But, unless you can really recommend me one specific book or source, this is not something I want to burden you guys with.)

Essentially, what I gather is that DBMA is the pinnacle of Kali, not the norm. Is that about right? So, I should really be looking for the norm, right?

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 11:27am

You CAN buy the DB DVDs, start practicing the stuff in the videos, and build a basic foundation. That foundation, as you know, will have holes in it. Then you can find a training partner that wants to spar with you, and sort through the holes. It is viable to a degree. Putting in the work is going to be the key there.

It will probably be frustrating to do it this way because here is what will happen. You will start learning triangles, circling stuff like that. You can't go wrong their. Then you will start practicing roof blocks. You will think they are easy and do a **** load of them. Then you will spar and see an overhand strike coming toward you. You will roof block and get hit in the head.

Then stop and go, what the ****! I did the move. Break it down in slow motion and realize that you haven't been putting your hand up high enough and out enough. Then have to go back and start drilling those roof blocks all over. Then half way through drilling the new way, you will realize that you reverted back to the old way at some point and have been drilling the wrong way for a half the time. Then you will get pissed and chuck your stick into the neighbors back yard. Then you will have to jump the fence and find your stick. Then start over, slowly to not let it happen again.

When you spar again in a week or so, hope to God that you've been doing it write and it shows through in sparring! If not, repeat. If so, move on to the next thing....roof blocks on the other side! :)

Obviously this would have all been sorted out by an instructor on the first day, as long as your werent stuck in the back of the class. And as long as you are learning something relevant.

You can also look into some kendo or JMA schools. They may have to people in there who want to spar out of class. Some JMA schools are into hard sparring with sticks, but they are few and far between.

As far as grapling. Some schools don't train it at all. But you have a lot of training to do before worrying about it. I would worry about stick for now. Then progress where you want to go.

**RynoGreene** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 12:32pm

If you can't find a stickfighting club, just look for a good combative club. Boxing is usually a safe bet. Seriously, I think if you took a boxer from a good club, and gave him a stick, he'd beet a "stickfighter" from a poor dancey-dance stickfighting club.

I understand that you say grappling isn't for you, but I'd really try to keep an open mind. I used to have that same attitude because I had never grappled and was nervous about it. Then I started at a good club, and I have had tons of fun learning.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 12:32pm

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

[*]How big is the grappling aspect in Kali Tudo? Like, for me, BJJ is on the same level as math was in high school: I recognize it's usefulness, but it's just not for me. Is this something that I will be able to compensate?

First, semantics: Kali Tudo is the DBMA attempt at bringing their arts to the a cage, ie in MMA. It is not stickfighting; its a way of approaching MMA. Kali Tudo and full contact stickfighting both utilize grappling, and you may find that in real stickfighting you close to grapple even though you aren't "a grappler". I've done it, so I've gone on to study it a bit more since as a real part of the game, its to be learned and developed, not avoided.

If math isn't your thing, that's fine, but its like you're getting into engineering or something: you'll have to be uniquely brilliant to avoid it entirely. On another level, do you want to stay in your comfort zone, or do you want to be forced to improve your game? If the former, real contact stickfighting may not be for you. On yet one more level, do you honestly think yourself so good at striking that it eclipses your grappling (which can only improve)? Now, take that answer and add in sticks, which you are not experienced with. It sounds like you're ruling out grappling in favor of a skillset you don't even have.

Caveat: grappling with weapons is different than unarmed grappling, and the differences can make one lose a fight. However, a good grappler needs only to tweak their game, while an "anti-grappler" needs to do something far more complex.

[*]Still, I am thoroughly confused about FMAs. Which is the style to train? I have contacted Lonely, but the DBMA structure in Germany seems to be that they teach based on seminars with associated schools. However, these associated schools do not seem to share a curriculum, and most Kali I have seen so far IRL looked an awful lot like dancing. What style to choose there?[/LIST]

Well, the video you posted afterwards is from modern arnis, which comes from Remy Presas. Remy has gone to great lengths to popularize his art, but its not that well respected among some of the old timers. You won't find pics of Inosanto and Presas together even though they're contemporaries, and other "old school" people have their beefs with him. My teacher doesn't like him. Some see modern arnis like the commercial tkd of FMA.

That could be old personal stuff, but Presas' group seems to be closely connected to George Dillman, so big red flags there.

Anyway, as a guy with no experience, pretty much any FMA group will improve on your base of nothing. If they pad up and spar, then settle in and train with them for a few months at least. Don't make the mistake of spending so much time looking for the best style that you end up as a permanent researcher.

**Fuzzy** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 2:29pm

Originally Posted by Permalost

Anyway, as a guy with no experience, pretty much any FMA group will improve on your base of nothing. If they pad up and spar, then settle in and train with them for a few months at least. Don't make the mistake of spending so much time looking for the best style that you end up as a permanent researcher.

This.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:01pm

Also regarding which FMA group is "the best" to train with: I've been training with a well respected FMA master, but one of the guys I train with somewhat consistently brings up things from his style (Tabosa) that I've never seen or have seen but explained in a different way. Sometimes he even moves in ways that seems opposite of what I've learned from my teacher. Does that mean I'm up **** creek and should go train with the Tabosas? No, it means that by being exposed to these other FMAs from sparring and training with others, I'm able to see the holes in my game and seek to plug them.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 5:37pm

Wow, thank you again, guys! That's a lot of great insights.
I appreciate that a lot.

Also, Diesel, just noticed that you sent me a PM a few weeks back. My apologies for not answering earlier; simply overlooked it. Even so, thank you very much!

Now, if you allow me a little third-coffee-cup-today excursion, please don't misinterpret my complaints availability of good martial arts training in Germany. :) This is the country of Gabriel Knight's adventures, after all: Incest, and werewolves, but nearly no MMA.
Like, in the states, thanks to the exposition that martial arts and military lifestyle get in the media, there's a density, a professionalism, and a level of quality control that people in Europe can usually dream of. Just to give you an idea, when I left in 2009, I don't think my old hometown even had any BJJ facility, of any sorts. (And we're talking a city of about 150.000 people here.)

So, that's why I am so careful about where I go: Everything that I have seen from German FMA guys so far has been stellar 80s-style McDojo-ism. - And the thing is, for a guy like me, it's very easy to buy into that: It's not very demanding, and in your little universe, you still get all the props for doing something "badass".

You CAN buy the DB DVDs, start practicing the stuff in the videos, and build a basic foundation. That foundation, as you know, will have holes in it. Then you can find a training partner that wants to spar with you, and sort through the holes. It is viable to a degree. Putting in the work is going to be the key there.

Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...LSqM7KCtMrj.99

It seems it will look like this anyway, because I still got 2 1/2 months to go where I really can't do anything but to hit the gym and to train from books and DVDs. Which I will gladly do. :)

What you said about the JMA guys - that's pretty much what I had thought to do if I didn't find anybody else.

I understand that you say grappling isn't for you, but I'd really try to keep an open mind.
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...Zy7oTsUkM2m.99

Sorry if my earlier comment sounded dismissive; not at all meant that way. I am just saying, I want to learn stickfighting well, though, not grappling. Now, if doing good stickfighting means I need to learn how to grapple, then I'll do that.

Well, the video you posted afterwards is from modern arnis, which comes from Remy Presas.
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...Zy7oTsUkM2m.99

Which is exactly why I asked. This kind of stuff, I cannot yet distinguish from good FMA.

Anyway, as a guy with no experience, pretty much any FMA group will improve on your base of nothing. If they pad up and spar, then settle in and train with them for a few months at least. Don't make the mistake of spending so much time looking for the best style that you end up as a permanent researcher.

Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...Zy7oTsUkM2m.99

Good. That's the answer I was looking for, pretty much. So, I'll simply enlist SOMEWHERE and then haunt Lonely to teach me the real deal.

Sounds not that bad. Fundamental only, me beating people with sticks.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 6:31pm

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

So, I'll simply enlist SOMEWHERE and then haunt Lonely to teach me the real deal.

Better to be a big fish in a small pond than a big fish suffocating while searching the web for a large pond.

Sounds not that bad. Fundamental only, me beating people with sticks.

Well, most likely you'll be beating air and inanimate objects with sticks if you're just doing solo training, and then you'll be shielding your head with your stick when you first get a sparring partner.