Dog Brothers, and on

**Permalost** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 3:44pm

There are 2 sorts of Dog Brothers gatherings (in LA, at least). One is open gatherings. I don't think they have any real requirements; IIRC there have been dudes with a few months of experience fighting there. I remember one year there was a muay thai guy, who I heard had like an afternoon of weapons training. He did pretty well since he was excellent at dumping people on the ground from the clinch while he remained standing. He got whacked in the legs and feet a lot though. During a clinch, someone said "hit him in the feet!" and after the match, he asked "Which one of you said 'hit him in the feet'?!?!"

The other type is tribal gatherings. Those are for Dog Brothers members and are not opened to the public (I've never been to one). Right now, there is an open gathering and a tribal gathering each year, but recently they've been considering 2 open gatherings a year.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 4:31pm

But, so to stand a chance against any of those guys, what would it be that I have to train?

**Permalost** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 5:38pm

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

But, so to stand a chance against any of those guys, what would it be that I have to train?

That's quite a Mortal-Kombatian question to answer, since the other guy could come from many different styles (you can't face the tiger style without knowing the monkey roll!!). Seriously though, some people are stickfighter+grappler+kickboxer, some people are single style guys (FMA, silat, systema) and nothing else, one of the better guys I've seen has a JMA background. Fights are arranged by the individuals, so find someone you think will challenge you without being out of your league. Or, a more advanced person may play with you, and since they know what they're doing, you can get used to it without such an adrenal beating involved. Some matches are no grappling, or no groundfighting, or no hidden knives etc, at the discretion of the participants. I generally don't restrict grappling etc, which has worked for me and against me.

I think a good prerequisite is to actually spar with sticks and fencing masks to the point that you're fairly comfortable with it. This is kind of separate from most martial arts training, sadly enough even in the Southeast Asian martial arts.

Having said all these nice words about how you can go in and do it without too much experience, I would be remiss to point out that regardless of what your background is, you might just get your ass handed to you in short order. One of my matches was me walking into a face kick that dropped me.

**Tonuzaba** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 7:31pm

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

But, so to stand a chance against any of those guys, what would it be that I have to train?

Just start doing it, man. :-)

Get yourself some rubber training knives, sticks, whatever, find a willing buddy/buddies and get used to the timing, movements and being hit.

Have you ever done anything similar? Try contacting the Spanish section of the DB Europe, maybe they have some folks closer to you than Barcelona ("Dog" Rodolfo Manzano, manzano.rodolfo@gmail.com, Ildefons Exposito Munoz, iexposito@cafosa.com ).

**RynoGreene** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 8:00pm

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

But, so to stand a chance against any of those guys, what would it be that I have to train?

Hit him with something, don't get hit by something. Basic weapons blocking, a couple of strikes are all you technically need as far as the stick goes. Obviously you can take that a lot farther with more advanced training, but better basics are what often wins. Once you've got that down, some basic knowledge of punches, kicks, etc. which you should recognize as a kickboxer. Then a understanding about basic takedowns and ground postions.

Honestly, the story of the Thai boxer is a good one. If you know how to shield up with your weapon, you can sometimes collapse the range and make it a kickboxing/grappling match. It is a completely valid tactic if someone is picking you apart at range with superior stick handling. The key is simply to know enough weapons defense to not get knocked silly on entry.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 8:32pm

Hehe, thanks, man. But actually, I am actually moving back to Germany this autumn, for the next two years at least. I have always been a fan of weapon fighting, so I thought, since my job will render regular full-contact fighting impossible (becoming a high school teacher, no black eyes allowed), why not do something I have always wanted to learn well? - Like, my weapons of choice in the other TMAs I studied where always the hanbo, and in WT, they dubbed me the "escrima-dude". So, it's like a choice that sounds like I am going to enjoy.

(No, I won't be quitting my beloved Kickboxing entirely. Heavybag: Ordered.)

**Honey Badger** · Posted On: 11/10/2012 11:50am

In my experience, the best balance of aliveness and protection is to use minimal gear and thinner sticks.

Using a mouthpiece and goggles (or a paintball half mask) as the only protection and 1/2" diameter or skinnier sticks (3/8" seems optimal) gives us training that hurts but doesn't injure and helps us avoid the "give a shot to take a shot" mindset that full gear, especially the fencing masks, seems to engender.

If it's just me and Ron, we'll go no gear/full respect with the skinny sticks. I don't recommend that with beginners.

Save the tree branches for hitting the tires.

**Goddels** · Posted On: 11/10/2012 1:12pm

The Dogbrother events have generated their share of publicity and attention, warranted and unwarranted. Some of those who have participated have puffed up their resumes to impress their friends (opponents too?) but most of those I have talked to who have done it almost hope they run into one of those over-impressed-with-themselves fighters because they are often the most surprised by their own vulnerability.

I am also quite amused by the old saw "Ya, but they are not real weapons". Yes they are real, just not sharp. And if you cannot get off a reasonably strong strike on your opponent's vital areas with a stick, what makes anyone think that it will magically occur if you are in possession of a sharp piece of steel,?

What would you need to train to be prepared to fight in a gathering? Years ago I would have said "guts" as that would have gotten you past most of who was there. Now there are so many good and experience fighters (I am referring to NA since I don't know much about the Euro gathering) that a total noob could get seriously hurt. Mind you, the gatherings are getting quite big so you could get lost in the crowd. You actually have to work hard to get 4 fights now.

That all being said, for training, hang a couple of old tires in your training space, get a not too heavy couple of sticks (not necessarily rattan for tire training), and a ring timer. Do rounds on the tires. Minimum 3 x the amount of fights you plan to have. Develop a set of strikes (slashes and thrusts) and mix it with some footwork (boxing footwork is actually quite similar to FMA footwork). Attack high and low. Be prepared to clinch with your opponent. Learn to hit on the clinch. Develop good endurance. Crashing with an advanced opponent may actually suffocate their strikes (no guarantee). Have some guts when you fight. If not you will always be just at the range that your opponent can spank you without you ever getting close enough return the favor. Find someone who you can work timing with. Sparring would be better. Train in the equipment you will fight in (fencing headgear, gloves, cup, mouth guard, etc.)

Good luck

**Fuzzy** · Posted On: 11/10/2012 5:36pm

Where in Germany are you moving Hiro? One of my instructor's black belts is over there and, although Doce Pares isn't exactly Dog Bros level it should give you some fun weapons drills to play with.

Also: I can't link so easily from my phone, but go look for the channel "Lonelysden" on Youtube.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 11/12/2012 12:37pm

Originally Posted by Honey Badger

Using a mouthpiece and goggles (or a paintball half mask) as the only protection and 1/2" diameter or skinnier sticks (3/8" seems optimal) gives us training that hurts but doesn't injure and helps us avoid the "give a shot to take a shot" mindset that full gear, especially the fencing masks, seems to engender.

I don't know about everyone else, but I do not like getting hit in the fencing mask with rattan strikes. They're loud and jarring, and I don't have a hit-for-hit mentality when wearing one.

A WEKAF mask, though, I would agree with.