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  1. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 8:27am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would make some things clear:

    1) The rules of the TS/Hiro 2011 fight:
    – MMA with UFC rules
    – No elbows to the face (there weren't enough elbow protectors available)
    – Only kicking the legs of a lying down opponent (both were grappling noobs, so I suspected that they didn't know Technical Stand-Up and getting kicked in the ribs when you are on your knees and hands just sucks)
    – No leglocks (again because they were grappling noobs)
    – Intensity level: inschool/interschool smoker
    – The only scenario where I said that they should go light with their boxing was in a ground-and-point from full mount. If one of them got in that position, he should “tap” the head of his opponent constantly while I start counting to 60. If after 60 the person below hadn't broken free from underneath the mount, I would declare the other person as the winner (again because they both were grappling noobs: breaking free from being full mounted is already difficult without somebody raining an amplitude of blows to your head).
    – There was a designated zone on the mats for the fights, but I had said that this wasn't really carved in stone. It was just to prevent that someone would get slammed into the wall, which is less forgiving than the side of a cage. On one side the wall was about 1 meter from the designated fight area. Hiro fell on the border/just outside the border of said area, but they were still at a safe distance from the wall and I was standing between them and that wall, so I let the fight continue.
    – If they came to close to a dangerous area (the wall or the mirrors), I would stop the match, put them in the middle of the fight area in their last position and restart the match. A practise that also gets done in BJJ competitions.
    – If I would see that the intensity level of one of them would increase to the level that it was obvious in his intention to do intensional harm to his opponent, I would stop the match, order a 60 seconds cooldown and restart the match with both opponents in a standing position. Each opponent got the right to 1 cooldown warning, second warning would be a DQ.
    Maybe not the best rules outthere, but I had to deal with two overenthousiastic noobs and there are conditions in renting out that place. If the supervisor saw someone with a bloody smashed face or if I had to call an ambulance, it would be the end of the EuroMegas.

    2) I have never forbidden to someone to come to an EuroMega and I won't start doing it in the future unless someone wants to come to deliberate hurt someone else. I know for those occasion a good parkingspace in front of the Federal Police/Gendarmerie station.

    3) I've never forbidden that anyone takes pictures or tape the event, I just didn't want to get filmed myself. Yet I was thinking about dropping that rule at the EuroMega 5.

    4) Hiro is still welcome at the EuroMega 5, but I want him to apologize in person to TS for making public on a forum, information that was given at the dinner and drinks afterwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
      #2611
  2. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Athens, Ga
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    5,683

    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 10:19am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    A week before I flew out to the GS, SifuJason told me that the fight was taking place under NC ammy MMA rules or there would be no fight (not the rules Josh and I worked out), that we would fight on mats between wavemasters with ribbon around them (not the ring we had agreed on), and that even though it was legal under the ammy rules rules that heel hook was to be considered a "douche move" (I asked). I had devoted a very large portion of my training to learning to catch TKD style kicks, sweep, retain the leg on the ground, and finish with heel hook. Did I say a word about the rule change, or how I didn't like it, or how I felt about not getting a ring as we were promised? Not once. If you're committed to making a fight happen, you make it happen.
    Holy **** no one told me heel hooks weren't cool. I had an entire bailout leg diving heel hook plan in case you turned out to have a guard game when it hit the ground. Also, I was completely astonished by the wavemaster ring when I arrived. I had no advance warning of that silliness either.
      #2612
  3. Tranquil Suit is online now
    Tranquil Suit's Avatar

    I have emotions.

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    Jul 2009
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    3,505

    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 11:55am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, follow-up from last big post. I said: "but I'll post my version of our match, sparring etc tomorrow. You know, the actually relevant stuff."
    But frankly I'm getting tired of nitpicking all this. The gist is written all over the last pages. So I'll just correct Rafe's errors.




    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist View Post
    Angryface? I was laughing.
    At what exactly? Don't answer. Your lack of serious attitude DURING THE MATCH irked me even then. Not a good idea to laugh when someone (who's more serious about it) is kicking you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist View Post
    But, yeah, I was expecting a stoppage, BTW, because we had agreed - or, well, this might have been a misunderstanding - to fight only on the part of the mat that TS throws me out of with his very first move. Also, no elbows to the head, which would have been handy, BTW.

    (Before anybody makes an angry rebuttal, where was I kneeling before the start of the fight? Why did I do that, and what was spoken on the mat before that? I think that part of the conversation might even be on tape.)


    So, yeah, I expected Zendo to stop the fight as soon as we got out of that clinch, and to reposition us on the other side of the the mat field(?). This is why I turn my hip, by the way. I was confused. Also, Zendo had advised us before the fight to go super-soft, so that's why I tapped after the first hard hit.
    Entering Rudy territory. Look, you agreed to a set of rules and that's that. If fighting on a certain part of a mat was that important, you could've asked for a reset anytime. Frankly, it wouldn't have mattered.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist View Post
    And you know what is funny about this? I didn't give a **** about this, then, and I don't give a **** about this now. I was never particularly interested in a TD fist, and in fact, Zendo had to talk me into this sparring match in the first place. First, when he visited me in Spain, and then, when it was apparent that I was sick on the day of the TD.
    Ah yes, I remember how you tried to tell Zendo to 'award' me a TD fist just for showing up. Seemed kinda pointless to me.

    Yes, you told us you had the stomach flu. Well you could've backed out and it would've been just fine. Your ego didn't let you. You're an adult, you made a decision. Don't use it as an excuse afterwards.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist View Post
    Also, in that context, TS and me sparred later that day, or rather tried it, and when he repeatedly stepped on my toes, and with equal repetition kicked me in the nuts, I clearly told him that, while I was not interested in making this a mess (remember what Zendo had told us about sparring), I would hurt him as well if he didn't stop. And guess what, 2011's TS got the message.
    Bitch please. You didn't say ****. That whole sparring session was a travesty. I had conflicting emotions about it. Should I let up like you're asking me or should I hit harder just like you?

    Surprisingly, sparring with Pointy went without a hitch. A breath of fresh air that was.

    (tab) Forum > Forum Actions > General Settings > in Thread Display Options > Number of Posts to Show Per Page: 40
      #2613
  4. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    May 2004
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    10,471

    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 12:37pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    this bitch **** is why the rules of a match and the entire match should pretty much always be taped.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
      #2614
  5. Sri Hanuman is offline
    Sri Hanuman's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,489

    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 12:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's what I don't get. Muay Thai has clinching. Grappling in it's BJJ and Judo variety has it's share of cuddling. A large number of posters practice at least one of the above arts. So with all the man hugging followed up by copious amounts of drink-sau that tends to be the norm to the end of a proper throwdown, why the **** do we still have so many crabby assholes posting on this interwebz?

    I had my ass handed to me at every fucking throwdown, and I still love every fucking one of you douchbag assholes. Now shut the **** up, and give the person next to you a hug. Plan your next throwdowns or something.


    Goddammit I miss TX...
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I used to **** guys like you in prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

    Dipshit
      #2615
  6. Sri Hanuman is offline
    Sri Hanuman's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 1:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sorry about the grouchy.
    Some douchebag at the office drank the last of the coffee.
    Now I'm reduced to chewing tea bags until my red bull re-supply arrives.
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I used to **** guys like you in prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

    Dipshit
      #2616
  7. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 1:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hpr View Post
    d I'm not about to ban anyone from TDs... Zendo is the only person with the authority to do that
    You're wrong. NOBODY has the authority to ban anyone from a TD. Nobody.The owner of the facility housing a TD might have persons banned from the premisses who could not be able to attend, but NO BULLY has the power you imagine Rene to have. Where the heck did this belief in a TD-Czar come from? We have (literally) NOTHING like this in the US.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #2617
  8. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 1:20pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    6
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    You're wrong. NOBODY has the authority to ban anyone from a TD. Nobody.The owner of the facility housing a TD might have persons banned from the premisses who could not be able to attend, but NO BULLY has the power you imagine Rene to have. Where the heck did this belief in a TD-Czar come from? We have (literally) NOTHING like this in the US.

    It's those socialist europeans. They need someone telling them what to do because they understand that regular people aren't competent to make those decisions for themselves. I assume Rafe was wearing the fanciest cravat or something when they first met up, which made him the default Bullshido Throwdown Minister of Attendance. I assume there's a fully formed bureaucracy managing the euro TDs behind the scenes somewhere. Probably have to fill out forms in triplicate to attend.
      #2618
  9. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 1:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    I would make some things clear:

    1) The rules of the TS/Hiro 2011 fight:
    – MMA with UFC rules
    – No elbows to the face (there weren't enough elbow protectors available)
    – Only kicking the legs of a lying down opponent (both were grappling noobs, so I suspected that they didn't know Technical Stand-Up and getting kicked in the ribs when you are on your knees and hands just sucks)
    – No leglocks (again because they were grappling noobs)
    – Intensity level: inschool/interschool smoker
    – The only scenario where I said that they should go light with their boxing was in a ground-and-point from full mount. If one of them got in that position, he should “tap” the head of his opponent constantly while I start counting to 60. If after 60 the person below hadn't broken free from underneath the mount, I would declare the other person as the winner (again because they both were grappling noobs: breaking free from being full mounted is already difficult without somebody raining an amplitude of blows to your head).
    – There was a designated zone on the mats for the fights, but I had said that this wasn't really carved in stone. It was just to prevent that someone would get slammed into the wall, which is less forgiving than the side of a cage. On one side the wall was about 1 meter from the designated fight area. Hiro fell on the border/just outside the border of said area, but they were still at a safe distance from the wall and I was standing between them and that wall, so I let the fight continue.
    – If they came to close to a dangerous area (the wall or the mirrors), I would stop the match, put them in the middle of the fight area in their last position and restart the match. A practise that also gets done in BJJ competitions.
    – If I would see that the intensity level of one of them would increase to the level that it was obvious in his intention to do intensional harm to his opponent, I would stop the match, order a 60 seconds cooldown and restart the match with both opponents in a standing position. Each opponent got the right to 1 cooldown warning, second warning would be a DQ.
    Maybe not the best rules outthere, but I had to deal with two overenthousiastic noobs and there are conditions in renting out that place. If the supervisor saw someone with a bloody smashed face or if I had to call an ambulance, it would be the end of the EuroMegas.

    2) I have never forbidden to someone to come to an EuroMega and I won't start doing it in the future unless someone wants to come to deliberate hurt someone else. I know for those occasion a good parkingspace in front of the Federal Police/Gendarmerie station.

    3) I've never forbidden that anyone takes pictures or tape the event, I just didn't want to get filmed myself. Yet I was thinking about dropping that rule at the EuroMega 5.

    4) Hiro is still welcome at the EuroMega 5, but I want him to apologize in person to TS for making public on a forum, information that was given at the dinner and drinks afterwards.
    Rene, check yourself; you don't have any kind of authority to do this. If you want to have a private event, that's fine and you can do it however you wish, but Bullshido TD's don't have restrictions like these. Restrictions stemming from the policy of the VENUE are a different story. The restrictions you describe would make the facility you guys are using unacceptable for a TD as we commonly know the term. You can't do a GS or even a TD fist match under the constraints described below

    If the supervisor saw someone with a bloody smashed face or if I had to call an ambulance, it would be the end of the EuroMegas.
    No Rene, it would simply be the end of using that facility. You can't have a bunch of people punching each other in the face (ie, a TD) without bloody faces. Whiteshark broke Kintanon's arm in half at a TD; everyone says they would love to have Omega attend a EuroMega (they should). What are you going to do when he starts doing his I-can-take-shots-to-the-face-over-and-over-and-over routine?

    What you're talking about is not a Bullshido Mega at all, it's something quite a bit different. A Bullshido Mega has quite a bit more potential for blood than it does Mega-czars.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #2619
  10. hpr is offline
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    Knock-off Cthulhu

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    Helsinki / Finland
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    2,181

    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 1:37pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    You're wrong. NOBODY has the authority to ban anyone from a TD. Nobody.The owner of the facility housing a TD might have persons banned from the premisses who could not be able to attend, but NO BULLY has the power you imagine Rene to have. Where the heck did this belief in a TD-Czar come from? We have (literally) NOTHING like this in the US.
    My point was more like the possibility that Zendo says "Oh OK, if that asshole is coming I'm not organising the event". But like I said, he's not that kind of a person. You're reading way more into this than what it is.
    Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
      #2620

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