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  1. erezb is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 9:54am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is quiet simple, when the most prominent mods and "leaders" are acting extremely abrasive (a fucking understatement) while all the time hiding behind the once fierce reputation of this site. They set an example of what is considered a "member" of BS.
    One must be well versed on ALL the different fallacies there are, a good troll and a good jercker to higher up mods/staff what have you so he can be part of the circle.
    So while weird malicious behavior (by those mods) coupled with a heavy dose of double standards and hypocrisy is not only tolerated but considered as the norm here something gets lost...fucking skill on this site which is dedicated to the MA.
    I actually wanted people from my gym to register to this site that at times can be fucking cool as ****, alas their english is even worst than mine, so i said don't bother you wouldn't be able to say two sentences without being the center of some jerk circle that will be led by those that suppose i guess to set an example.
    So not only a lot of those mods and leaders or staff what have you, are not setting a semi polite or reasonable platform to debate or get "educated" (how exactly can you get educated when the forum leaders troll you?) They can't even contribute???? that is just too much. (will take you out of a noob forum to trollshido when they have something funny to say).
    I always thought they could if they wanted to, but they choose to make fun of you out of boredom (how dare you talk about something that was discussed at 2007?!), now i see they don't contribute anything (in substance, they do enforce on a whim some of the rules) because they can't.
    I am talking as a new member maybe not a noob but new, so my point of view is fresh, and i was very honest here, knowing perfectly well im going to get attacked on it.
      #1971
  2. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 10:00am

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     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell View Post
    Sambosteve, after reading your post about the cultural shift on here, one question came up with me: Is this a situation that can be changed by reform, or do you think the mojo is gone forgood?
    Do I think Bullshido can get back to what it was on track to be? Sadly, No. But that is because I feel the world has evolved and Bullshido needs reform in accordance with that. It needs a new model. It needs to be "alive." Also, knowing the history of resistance & inability to change around here, I don't suspect it is possible. At this point I see Bullshido as just another martial arts forum with all the BS, ego, and attitude that comes along with cyber communities. And that is sad. Do I think people can still network, build relationships, etc? Of course. But that is not unique to this site.

    Were I "in charge," people would not like my solution. Especially people who have been/still are so invested in this place and what it means to their egos, pocket books, reputations, fantasy lives, etc. But, what I think is needed is to completely shut the place down for a while and start from scratch. I would prune the **** out of this place; down to its most essential elements. 80% of what you see would be gone. Then I would redesign, change the format, rules, intent, etc. This place needs a serious forest fire so new undergrowth can emerge. Otherwise, it will be business as usual.
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation
      #1972
  3. sambosteve is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 10:09am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
    I'll start off by saying that I respect your opinions here and for the most part I agree with you. I will share with you why I feel some people don't get involved, why I haven't really tried to get involved.

    As a noob, the investigative part of the forum can be... intimidating to say the least. I know I feel like I better come with some good, reliable information (for good reason, I know), but that means I may not post something for fear of my info not being "good enough" or whatever when in reality it could have been key. In that aspect I feel maybe the tone of MABS should be brought down, just a hair.

    Aside from wondering if you're going to be trolled for the information you bring to the table you have to worry about legal troubles, as you already stated. I think most of us are grown and don't have time for that BS, so the thought of possible legal actions being taken I'm sure is a huge deterrent for participation on investigations. Before I go any further, I'd like to say I have no idea what all Sam Browning's job entails so don't take this the wrong way. I know he may be mainly in charge in keeping Phrost out of hot water, but I feel like if I'm busting my ass exposing a fraud he damn well better be busting his trying to keep me out of or safe in a court situation. I think it should be made clear what, if any, help we would have in a legal situation. Just my honest opinion.

    I started an investigation of my own accord a little while back. I PM'ed a mod asking for advice and was told to email this fellow's instructors in regards to his claims which I already had. When I responded with the mixed messages I received, I never heard back from the mod. In his defense I told him I didn't intend to go "public" with it, but that's only because it was an instructor with whom I had shared words with one of his students on here so I didn't want to be blown off like I was just trying to stir more ****.

    As far as throwdowns go, I agree that members should be more active but that may just be our personal preference. I realise that most of us have real lives and can't justify meeting up with our e-crew to slap each other around when we probably do that for way cheaper at our home gym, but I expected a more active community when I joined here. I think if we got together more in real life we would be a tighter community and therefore would work harder towards the mission of Bullshido.

    I typed this out on my phone so I may have missed some points I meant to bring up. If this is the case, rest assured I will post them at a later time.
    Yes, the investigations could get very intimidating indeed. I totally understand that.

    Regarding Sam, he deserves a plaque on the wall here for all he has done. He did bust his ass to protect us investigators, and the site from many threats. I do feel though, that in the end he became a "hellicopter mom" of sorts. He overprotected the site. His desire to preemptively protect us became a somewhat obsessive and served to halt progress around here.
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation
      #1973
  4. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 10:11am

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     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    It is quiet simple, when the most prominent mods and "leaders" are acting extremely abrasive (a fucking understatement) while all the time hiding behind the once fierce reputation of this site. They set an example of what is considered a "member" of BS.
    One must be well versed on ALL the different fallacies there are, a good troll and a good jercker to higher up mods/staff what have you so he can be part of the circle.
    So while weird malicious behavior (by those mods) coupled with a heavy dose of double standards and hypocrisy is not only tolerated but considered as the norm here something gets lost...fucking skill on this site which is dedicated to the MA.
    I actually wanted people from my gym to register to this site that at times can be fucking cool as ****, alas their english is even worst than mine, so i said don't bother you wouldn't be able to say two sentences without being the center of some jerk circle that will be led by those that suppose i guess to set an example.
    So not only a lot of those mods and leaders or staff what have you, are not setting a semi polite or reasonable platform to debate or get "educated" (how exactly can you get educated when the forum leaders troll you?) They can't even contribute???? that is just too much. (will take you out of a noob forum to trollshido when they have something funny to say).
    I always thought they could if they wanted to, but they choose to make fun of you out of boredom (how dare you talk about something that was discussed at 2007?!), now i see they don't contribute anything (in substance, they do enforce on a whim some of the rules) because they can't.
    I am talking as a new member maybe not a noob but new, so my point of view is fresh, and i was very honest here, knowing perfectly well im going to get attacked on it.
    I'm pretty sure Omega said this a while back in the thread:

    Mods and Staff, here, *volunteer* their time. There are plenty of pros, teachers, and otherwise-experts that also volunteer their time. Mods and Staff aren't here to be experts, they are here to foster an environment in which experts will continue to share and exchange their knowledge.

    That mostly includes being abrasive towards dipshits and generally keeping the forums clean of spam and shitposting, neither of which require any real MA experience. If you've been around long enough to remember the Mad Cow list, you would have seen just what an awesome job these people do.

    Bullshido is by far better run than most other internet forums, something that seems lost on some of you.
      #1974
  5. erezb is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 10:42am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, it seems like some don't agree with you. The fact they volunteer their time is irrelevant. They should also create a platform for education, at least that is what the boss here said.
    There are other platforms too and not only "experts" that don't even really talk here, they give a lecture once in a while and disappear. The only "expert" that is here enough is Omega, and he acts in a way that discourages people to consult with him. Those inside jokes are lost on us outsiders.
    Further more i did not say they need to be experts, i am no expert but if someone asks a question regarding my stile, i can most likely reply with some informative answer.
    The difference between a few months of MT or a dabbling in some obscure traditional CMA to being top ten contender in MMA is huge! Having a solid knowledge in a MA while volunteering your time in a MA site, also holding a position of influence is necessary if you want to keep a professional site.
    Those people i talked about feel free to rub their opinions on anything with an air of authority based on their time here and their status on this site, and if they are full of **** as is the case with some of them, well than we have a problem and the site against BS is ironically BS.
    Why not put a disclaimer on them, "this mod/staff/leader isn't responsible for the **** he/she/it is spurting and have no barring on this site"
    "this mod/leader/staff though sounding tough is actually a noob"
    P.S you can forgive a lot to someone if he was more forgiving towards you, but when this guys act so (I want to say tough, but i guess keyboard warrior is better) demanding from every noob to know this and read that, with their bans and ****, all the time they are just fucking fakes. The bare minimum is that they are martial artists.
      #1975
  6. Moenstah is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 10:53am


     Style: 空手 / &#2147

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Give the mods / forum leaders a 'janitor' tag, problem solved. Everyone knows they're around to keep the threads on track, nothing more, nothing less. Combined with the tags of special abilities (military/police/KK/fighter) everything will be clear. Tadaah.
    Last edited by Moenstah; 11/29/2012 10:53am at . Reason: grammar
      #1976
  7. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 10:53am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daddykata View Post
    Mods and Staff aren't here to be experts, they are here to foster an environment in which experts will continue to share and exchange their knowledge.

    While this is correct, it's not the IMPRESSION that new users get. And even established users. I myself assumed that the forum leaders especially were selected based not solely on their availability, but at least partially on their skill and experience. The thing is, TS has plenty of skill and experience for the forum he is leader of. The MMA events forum (as I recall) but there is no way to tell that from looking at his user. It just looks like he's a 'Forum Leader' which leads to the impression that he should be an expert in something. Then you see his style field is Muay Thai (It may not be, I didn't look, this is just an example) and you assume 'This guy must be an expert in Muay Thai.'

    Now, TS hasn't done anything wrong here. He hasn't told anyone he's a Muay Thai badass, but the way the site is setup has presented him as such accidentally. Then that kind of thing gets into peoples heads and they see him sparring at a TD and are like 'WTF? That guys no Muay Thai Badass! He must be a lying scumbag riding the bullshido coat tails to internet fame and fortune!' then the pitchforks and torches come out.

    What the real point of this thread SHOULD be (aside from finding ways for Sirc to get punched in the mouth) is figuring out how we can increase and improve the amount of discussion and interaction. How do we create a generation of new users to take up the mantle from the old guard?
    Should people be honest with us and with themselves about their training level? Yes. Absolutely. Should we be draconian in our enforcement of this honesty? Maybe, maybe not. I don't have an answer for that. I would ASSUME that no one is deriving sufficient benefit from falsifying their training that it would be a problem, but people do weird **** so who knows.

    Umm, to address Sambosteve's point about the forum becoming more forumy and keyboard warriory than it was previously I think that's largely an issue with the offline component of the site suffering. The Throwdown frequency has gone WAAAY down across the site. There used to be monthly Ga Tech TD meetings, there used to be pretty regular NYC ones, regular west coast ones, etc... Now I think the boston bullies are the only ones meeting up on a regular basis and that's largely because half of them train at the same gym from what I understand.
    A revival of the offline component of the site will help cut down on some of the online posturing and bullshit.

    Is bullshido really well run? Yes, it is. The only place I hang out that is run as well is JiuJitsuforums and that's because Jack runs the place to his own personal standard and maintains it as a forum with a single purpose, to talk politely about JiuJitsu. Could bullshido be run in a way that produces more of the interactions we want? Yes, of course it could be.
      #1977
  8. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 10:57am


     Style: being less stupid

    0
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Gong Sau Extravaganza 2013: Sirc vs. 3moose

    Quote Originally Posted by daddykata View Post
    I'm pretty sure Omega said this a while back in the thread:

    Mods and Staff, here, *volunteer* their time. There are plenty of pros, teachers, and otherwise-experts that also volunteer their time. Mods and Staff aren't here to be experts, they are here to foster an environment in which experts will continue to share and exchange their knowledge.
    And? Anyone that contributes their time here is a volunteer. They don't need to be experts in martial arts or even their own martial art but they do need to take their position seriously for this site to function the way it was intended.

    That mostly includes being abrasive towards dipshits and generally keeping the forums clean of spam and shitposting, neither of which require any real MA experience. If you've been around long enough to remember the Mad Cow list, you would have seen just what an awesome job these people do.
    That really just depends on a number of things. I don't expect jnp to be a physical trainer, but when it comes to MABS why put someone over it that has never done an investigation? I'm not saying this has happened, I'm just saying a mods job should/could be more involved than just taking care of dipshits.

    Bullshido is by far better run than most other internet forums, something that seems lost on some of you.
    So we're better than the other guys that also suck? Good work team! Maybe one day we will run efficiently as well.
    Start a training log!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i really think that those who can't get their head around the bowing thing (because their angry sky daddy will punish them) don't deserve judo. life is full of choices, and if your bronze age superstitions are holding you back, so be it.
      #1978
  9. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 11:09am


     Style: being less stupid

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Gong Sau Extravaganza 2013: Sirc vs. 3moose

    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve View Post
    Yes, the investigations could get very intimidating indeed. I totally understand that.

    Regarding Sam, he deserves a plaque on the wall here for all he has done. He did bust his ass to protect us investigators, and the site from many threats. I do feel though, that in the end he became a "hellicopter mom" of sorts. He overprotected the site. His desire to preemptively protect us became a somewhat obsessive and served to halt progress around here.
    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I hope I didn't come across like I was calling Sam out as that was not the case.

    I agree this site needs to be revamped. I would love to see this site run the way I imagined it would when I first signed up, the way you remember it sambosteve. Honestly, lately I'm just here for the lulz and I apologise. I've been hiding behind the excuse that I'm just emulating what I see.

    Obviously I like to talk about random **** just as much as the next person, but why on a site dedicated rooting out BS in martial arts are there more off topic fora than technique fora? Not only is it highly unnecessary to have that many specific off topic fora, it distracts from the mission of this site.
    Start a training log!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i really think that those who can't get their head around the bowing thing (because their angry sky daddy will punish them) don't deserve judo. life is full of choices, and if your bronze age superstitions are holding you back, so be it.
      #1979
  10. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2012 11:10am

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     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    Well, it seems like some don't agree with you. The fact they volunteer their time is irrelevant. They should also create a platform for education, at least that is what the boss here said.
    There are other platforms too and not only "experts" that don't even really talk here, they give a lecture once in a while and disappear. The only "expert" that is here enough is Omega, and he acts in a way that discourages people to consult with him. Those inside jokes are lost on us outsiders.
    Further more i did not say they need to be experts, i am no expert but if someone asks a question regarding my stile, i can most likely reply with some informative answer.
    The difference between a few months of MT or a dabbling in some obscure traditional CMA to being top ten contender in MMA is huge! Having a solid knowledge in a MA while volunteering your time in a MA site, also holding a position of influence is necessary if you want to keep a professional site.
    Those people i talked about feel free to rub their opinions on anything with an air of authority based on their time here and their status on this site, and if they are full of **** as is the case with some of them, well than we have a problem and the site against BS is ironically BS.
    Why not put a disclaimer on them, "this mod/staff/leader isn't responsible for the **** he/she/it is spurting and have no barring on this site"
    "this mod/leader/staff though sounding tough is actually a noob"
    P.S you can forgive a lot to someone if he was more forgiving towards you, but when this guys act so (I want to say tough, but i guess keyboard warrior is better) demanding from every noob to know this and read that, with their bans and ****, all the time they are just fucking fakes. The bare minimum is that they are martial artists.
    Ideally, yes, they are martial artists... beyond that, it sounds like you're butthurt because somebody trollshido'd you. Maybe you should take a step back, review why you're at Bullshido and what you hope to gain by posting here.

    Have you ever had a speeding ticket, when there were dozens of other speeders around you? I think it's kinda like that - the mods can't catch every shitposter, but they do a pretty good job going after the egregious offenders.

    The fact that the mods are volunteer is absolutely relevant, here. I think you're missing the economics of being able to run a site like this effectively without such help. Either there would be no content, or so much crap that it would be unreadable. Striking the balance is an artform, and I think Phrost et al. have done a remarkable job.

    I'm not mod or staff, so I don't really know too much about the politics behind the scenes, but I suspect that if such an offensive situation existed - for example, a mod outright lying about his (or her) experience - we would see that play out in a manner similar to the Chuck episode.

    @Kintanon - perhaps a published "mod code of conduct," or less generic tags would be a better solution? Personally, I think a lot of people in this thread need a giant dose of HTFU. There was no coddling or being nice when I joined the site. It's way softer now, I think.

    @itwasntme - when you actually contribute anything to this site other than asshattery, you're a volunteer. Until that time, you're just a user/reader.
      #1980

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