Gong Sau Extravaganza 2013: Sirc vs. 3moose

**Lebell** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 5:45am

Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit

Okay, just one post. JUST ONE THEN I STOP I PROMISE!!

@Lebell: I'll use basketball as an analogy.

Omo+Matt: "We shooting hoops. You down with that?"
TS: "Get me on the court and I'm trouble. Last week fucked around and got a triple double"

I was shutting down their game so sweet. Took a breather, but when I came back I saw Matt was holding a volleyball, and was constantly getting aced by Rivington!

So I tried pulling a Gilmore when this annoying kid named Lebell runs up the court and Hack-a-Shaqs my ass. That loudmouth can't play ball to save his life. But didn't even matter, he just curled around the tennisball and kept screaming.

So I left the court and got back to work, and he's still there doing his victory dance.

Again with quite the mouth, while having preciously little to back it up with.
Whats wrong with you?
This is the second time you refer to me in a derigatory manner, you consider yourself more skilled than me?
First im a little bitch, now im referred to as a kid, whats up with that?
You starting to look like a second Hiro, you dont want to adress any points and keep being defensive.
This mindset wont get you anywhere, not in martial arts, not in life in general.

***Tranquil Suit*** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 5:59am

Originally Posted by Lebell

This is the second time you refer to me in a derigatory manner, you consider yourself more skilled than me?

In basic reasoning, definitely.

Originally Posted by Lebell

First im a little bitch, now im referred to as a kid, whats up with that?
You starting to look like a second Hiro, you dont want to adress any points and keep being defensive.
This mindset wont get you anywhere, not in martial arts, not in life in general.

You idiot, the majority of facts you stated were wrong and you could've looked them up in this thread alone, almost all the points you inferred are based on those false facts so they have no basis.

The worst part, you made the same logical errors as Omo just before. Now you said you actually read that... Did you forget it already? My replies to Omo's posts actually apply to your posts as well.

I honestly thought you were counter counter trolling me. "No way" I thought "He can't be serious with this many errors".

EDIT; My guess is once you formed an idea about me based on a hunch, you just rolled with it all the way instead of looking for actual facts.

AND NOW IM REALLY STOPPING. YES LEBELL, LALLALALA I CANT HEAR YOU GO LOOK UP WHAT I MEAN

**Lebell** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 6:18am

Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit

In basic reasoning, definitely.

You idiot, the majority of facts you stated were wrong and you could've looked them up in this thread alone, almost all the points you inferred are based on those false facts so they have no basis.

The worst part, you made the same logical errors as Omo just before. Now you said you actually read that... Did you forget it already? My replies to Omo's posts actually apply to your posts as well.

I honestly thought you were counter counter trolling me. "No way" I thought "He can't be serious with this many errors".

EDIT; My guess is once you formed an idea about me based on a hunch, you just rolled with it all the way instead of looking for actual facts.

AND NOW IM REALLY STOPPING. YES LEBELL, LALLALALA I CANT HEAR YOU GO LOOK UP WHAT I MEAN

Fail again.
You try to 'reason' your way out of it.
Faulty logic used by me, or not: you got clearly and very quickly agitated, couldnt deal with the stress and resorted to insulting, and in this last post you do it again.

Thats not exactly the character of someone who supposedly does combative sports.

If my or Omo's reasoning is faulty: just set it straight.
You didnt, you were playing grabass.
Again you try to distract from what is the core point: why werent you more critical of yourself and hiro?
obviously you had your thoughts already hence that little lashout earlier in this thread towards him.
You want to be a seen member here, forumleader, etc yet you cant handle the slightest form of criticism and fail at selfcriticism.

So why dont you just start again, without the teehee im having a witty discussion attitude and just get real?

**Lebell** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 6:25am

Well, I seem to be hitting a wall here with TS.
Maybe someone like Sambosteve could chip in as he carries more weight than I do.
For what its worth, im not out to get TS, im just somewhat disturbed by his reactions, here we have two dudes, him and hiro who had an awfull lot to say on this site for YEARS, yet at best the best of the two looks like he had 6 months of training.

If anyone really thinks that is not relevant then I honestly dont know what to say, and I fear the worst for what (Euro) TD's will descend into, and with it the integrity of this community.

To me its really that simple.

**SifuAbel** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 7:54am

NO, TS is the same kind of self absorbed, in love with his pseudo intelligentsia, pathos that Chuck thought he was. How is TS any different? Not by much. The site has become complicit in fostering this kind of tolerance for "the LULZ" seekers. You reap what you sow. Now its all there is. YMAS IS the main forum now. TS IS the main member and actual MAists are becoming the marginal player.

For a time sirc served a purpose, but now ,not so much. Yet he hasn't changed. The rest of you have. You've actually become serious about what the site was supposed to be about.

Neal really wonders why this place isn't even on most MMAer serious site list.

**erezb** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 8:07am

Originally Posted by Lebell

**** on a sandwich?
What's wrong with you?

I'd like some cheese, bacon (crispy) honey mustardsauce.
Maybe also some pickles but very thinly sliced.
And the bread must be exactly right for it and...okay forget it, I'll just do it myself.

**** you man!! this totally made me drool, and you know i can't get a peace of normal bacon here...also what the **** is honey mustard?? sound delish!!! I'm hungry.

**Lebell** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 8:27am

Originally Posted by SifuAbel

NO, TS is the same kind of self absorbed, in love with his pseudo intelligentsia, pathos that Chuck thought he was. How is TS any different? Not by much. The site has become complicit in fostering this kind of tolerance for "the LULZ" seekers. You reap what you sow. Now its all there is. YMAS IS the main forum now. TS IS the main member and actual MAists are becoming the marginal player.

For a time sirc served a purpose, but now ,not so much. Yet he hasn't changed. The rest of you have. You've actually become serious about what the site was supposed to be about.

Neal really wonders why this place isn't even on most MMAer serious site list.

Luckily we still have you to champion the credibility of Bullshido, right?
Go flee an orangotang or something.

**Lebell** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 8:29am

Originally Posted by erezb

**** you man!! this totally made me drool, and you know i can't get a peace of normal bacon here...also what the **** is honey mustard?? sound delish!!! I'm hungry.

Try to find a Xtia butchery, I think I saw one in Armenian quarters, on the street next to the wall. (sorta the most outer street)

Honeymustard is simply in the name: mustard with honey, the honey takes most of the sting outta the mustard and gives it sweetish creamy flavor.

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 11/29/2012 9:06am

Originally Posted by sambosteve

The culture here has fundamentally changed in several ways with regard the two main goals of the site were: Training and investigation.

When I first came here, this site had the reputation of being tough; a place where people actually trained hard or went to find out how to; where you needed a thick skin to survive as a noob (not get treated with kid gloves); and it was generally expected that the people you were speaking to actually trained (alive) – general members, forum leaders, everyone. Throwdowns were evidence of all this and you would actually meet the people from your area live. ****, even Sam Browning came to the TD’s to get smashed. Sadly, the site has quite the opposite reputation. There are barely a handful of “experts” here.

Using the NY throwdowns as an example, things have dwindled at Bullshido. At one time they were very active. The NY Mega was massive. The older throwdowns at Fighthouse were active. When I started hosting them at my club they were very active. But, over time, attendance dwindled. The same core group continued to come, but as they moved on in life, got their own training on, etc, the TD attendance thinned. Few new faces came to replace the older crew moving on. I believe the TD’s in most locations can say the same thing. This reflects a significant problem in how the purpose of this community is received by noobs and executed. And, what happened to the TD’s is a microcosm IMO of what has happened to the BS community at large.

With little incentive to stay on the forum or little time to participate as they once did, experienced people move on with no replacements of equal caliber. The site loses its “expert” resources and a self-fulfilling cycle of mediocrity festers like a necrotic wound. There are few “experts” here for the noobs to chat with and learn from. Cyber tough guys fill the void with little challenge. Many (most?) personal connections made on this site regionally were taken off line, and continue there today. This is at least my experience. I made many friends on Bullshido, and as the site’s focus shifted, most of them have left or at least functioning as lurkers.

For me, the main reason to come here years ago was the investigation aspect of the site. I really respected what Bullshido was trying to do. There was a time when Bullshido was THE GO-TO site when credentials were a question on any other site. Now, the investigation aspect of this site is dead. There has not been a full investigation article published in years.

Recently, I tried to see how the current culture on the site would handle an investigation handed to them on a silver platter:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=117916

I did all the major leg work and presented the thread in a way expected from investigators/thread starters years ago…research, facts, etc. But, far from complete. Ready to be worked on. Not too long ago, a good new thread in MABS would generate a dozen or so people who would immediately start researching, coordinating, working, and sinking their teeth into what would become a future article. It was expected that a good MABS thread would be received by a willing and able community who would immediately get to work. Not this time; barely a response at all. Years ago there was a sense of mission and everyone tried to chip in no matter their level of investigatory skill. This is no longer.

Some example of the ones I am proud of or think are fine examples are:
David Kujawski - http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation
(possibly our finest, most critical work)
Matthew Morton - http://www.bullshido.org/Matthew_Morton
Jimmy Lyons - http://www.bullshido.org/Jimmy_Lyons
Kristian Geraci - http://www.bullshido.org/Khristian_Geraci
(the one that spawned the Real Fighter artcile)

I really do suggest that some of the noobs read these if they want to know about what the site was once like.
There are many more: http://www.bullshido.org/Category:Investigations

Many people see the Chuck incident as the beginning of the end for the investigation aspect of the forum. But, in reality, the decline started long before that. Though, the chuck incident did clearly highlight the shifting attitude within the site’s community regarding the importance of practical martial skill and knowledge…in forum leaders especially.

The Chuck incident showed clearly that there was a Bullshido version of the “blue wall of silence” and that, because of Chuck’s willingness to finish investigations, the powers that be here were willing to sweep many things under the rug before the story went public…and the community at large would do the same after it went public. When those of us that were concerned about Chuck’s unethical (criminal?) behavior regarding investigations were getting nowhere with private off forum discussion, we assumed that exposing Chucks lack of martial skill would be a no-brainer for the community and open the door to addressing the more serious concerns with him. How could one of the site main investigators lie about his own credentials? But, we all know what happened. Yes, Chuck finally was banned (not from sociocide), but it was a painful process. Many people here did not like the possibility of looking in that same mirror regarding their own training and image on the site. The community circled the wagons. How could this guy pose his way into such a position of power at the site? It shone a light on some serious problems here. Those problems still exist as we can see. In any event, the result of the Chuck incident was a mass exodus of the most dedicated investigators or at least a decision to not be involved in investigations any longer (myself included). But, this was not only about Chuck. Chuck was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

In truth, Bullshido’s decline in the investigation realm started before all this. It came to a head when the debate was raging about substantiating Bullshido’s legitimacy as an investigative body. Were we journalists? Could we accept that role? Would that open us up to lawsuits? The general feeling of the powers that be was to hide behind the anonymous nature of the posters and open nature of the forum. The notion that the site did not edit threads and that anyone could freely post would save us from lawsuits. But we knew this was a crock. We did edit final articles and we wanted our legitimacy as investigators. But we could not have our cake and eat it too. Behind the scenes and in part on the boards, the debate raged about how to protect the site AND build our investigative wing. Paranoia over lawsuits killed us. True, myself and many others were named in suits against the site. But, for me and many others, that simply came with the territory. In the end, we blew it. Bullshido was set to blow up in a serious way. We fucked it up and never recovered what we had.

Our investigations were getting bigger and better, and we were addressing more serious topics outside the local mom & pop McDojo bullshit. Many noobs here probably have no idea as to the length we would go for investigations. The time came that we needed to **** or get off the pot. To become more legit we needed to evolve past what the site was. We discussed building a separate website specific for the investigation wing, separate from the forums; Like a cyber magazine so to speak. I had nurtured a relationship with Real Fighter magazine who published a story rooted in one of our investigations. The magazine was interested in a regular Bullshido column. We had our moment! We could build a new site and have published works on a regular basis. But this all went bust and I, who brokered the relationship with the magazine, was left looking like an idiot. We never published because there was too much debate over wording of the writer’s contract, who would take credit, who would get sued, who would defend a suit, etc. These were all important, but not unworkable details. In the end, we wanted to bust frauds, but were afraid of the natural consequences…possible lawsuits. Shortly after this, the Chuck event happened and killed the investigation aspect of the site all together. And, for me, the main reason for my presence here.

I am sure many will have differing versions of this story and there are things I have not mentioned in the name of brevity. But, this is the cliff notes version of how I see it.

I'll start off by saying that I respect your opinions here and for the most part I agree with you. I will share with you why I feel some people don't get involved, why I haven't really tried to get involved.

As a noob, the investigative part of the forum can be... intimidating to say the least. I know I feel like I better come with some good, reliable information (for good reason, I know), but that means I may not post something for fear of my info not being "good enough" or whatever when in reality it could have been key. In that aspect I feel maybe the tone of MABS should be brought down, just a hair.

Aside from wondering if you're going to be trolled for the information you bring to the table you have to worry about legal troubles, as you already stated. I think most of us are grown and don't have time for that BS, so the thought of possible legal actions being taken I'm sure is a huge deterrent for participation on investigations. Before I go any further, I'd like to say I have no idea what all Sam Browning's job entails so don't take this the wrong way. I know he may be mainly in charge in keeping Phrost out of hot water, but I feel like if I'm busting my ass exposing a fraud he damn well better be busting his trying to keep me out of or safe in a court situation. I think it should be made clear what, if any, help we would have in a legal situation. Just my honest opinion.

I started an investigation of my own accord a little while back. I PM'ed a mod asking for advice and was told to email this fellow's instructors in regards to his claims which I already had. When I responded with the mixed messages I received, I never heard back from the mod. In his defense I told him I didn't intend to go "public" with it, but that's only because it was an instructor with whom I had shared words with one of his students on here so I didn't want to be blown off like I was just trying to stir more ****.

As far as throwdowns go, I agree that members should be more active but that may just be our personal preference. I realise that most of us have real lives and can't justify meeting up with our e-crew to slap each other around when we probably do that for way cheaper at our home gym, but I expected a more active community when I joined here. I think if we got together more in real life we would be a tighter community and therefore would work harder towards the mission of Bullshido.

I typed this out on my phone so I may have missed some points I meant to bring up. If this is the case, rest assured I will post them at a later time.