Gong Sau Extravaganza 2013: Sirc vs. 3moose

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 11/28/2012 11:24pm

You could call your kid a myriad of awesome names:

Remark
Avail
Tare
Impeneter
Palp
Inflam
En
Favor
Profit

****, there's more, just go here: http://www.learnthat.org/word_lists/view/1266

**sambosteve** · Posted On: 11/28/2012 11:24pm

Originally Posted by itwasntme

What's different now than back in the day?

The culture here has fundamentally changed in several ways with regard the two main goals of the site were: Training and investigation.

When I first came here, this site had the reputation of being tough; a place where people actually trained hard or went to find out how to; where you needed a thick skin to survive as a noob (not get treated with kid gloves); and it was generally expected that the people you were speaking to actually trained (alive) – general members, forum leaders, everyone. Throwdowns were evidence of all this and you would actually meet the people from your area live. ****, even Sam Browning came to the TD’s to get smashed. Sadly, the site has quite the opposite reputation. There are barely a handful of “experts” here.

Using the NY throwdowns as an example, things have dwindled at Bullshido. At one time they were very active. The NY Mega was massive. The older throwdowns at Fighthouse were active. When I started hosting them at my club they were very active. But, over time, attendance dwindled. The same core group continued to come, but as they moved on in life, got their own training on, etc, the TD attendance thinned. Few new faces came to replace the older crew moving on. I believe the TD’s in most locations can say the same thing. This reflects a significant problem in how the purpose of this community is received by noobs and executed. And, what happened to the TD’s is a microcosm IMO of what has happened to the BS community at large.

With little incentive to stay on the forum or little time to participate as they once did, experienced people move on with no replacements of equal caliber. The site loses its “expert” resources and a self-fulfilling cycle of mediocrity festers like a necrotic wound. There are few “experts” here for the noobs to chat with and learn from. Cyber tough guys fill the void with little challenge. Many (most?) personal connections made on this site regionally were taken off line, and continue there today. This is at least my experience. I made many friends on Bullshido, and as the site’s focus shifted, most of them have left or at least functioning as lurkers.

For me, the main reason to come here years ago was the investigation aspect of the site. I really respected what Bullshido was trying to do. There was a time when Bullshido was THE GO-TO site when credentials were a question on any other site. Now, the investigation aspect of this site is dead. There has not been a full investigation article published in years.

Recently, I tried to see how the current culture on the site would handle an investigation handed to them on a silver platter:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=117916

I did all the major leg work and presented the thread in a way expected from investigators/thread starters years ago…research, facts, etc. But, far from complete. Ready to be worked on. Not too long ago, a good new thread in MABS would generate a dozen or so people who would immediately start researching, coordinating, working, and sinking their teeth into what would become a future article. It was expected that a good MABS thread would be received by a willing and able community who would immediately get to work. Not this time; barely a response at all. Years ago there was a sense of mission and everyone tried to chip in no matter their level of investigatory skill. This is no longer.

Some example of the ones I am proud of or think are fine examples are:
David Kujawski - http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation
(possibly our finest, most critical work)
Matthew Morton - http://www.bullshido.org/Matthew_Morton
Jimmy Lyons - http://www.bullshido.org/Jimmy_Lyons
Kristian Geraci - http://www.bullshido.org/Khristian_Geraci
(the one that spawned the Real Fighter artcile)

I really do suggest that some of the noobs read these if they want to know about what the site was once like.
There are many more: http://www.bullshido.org/Category:Investigations

Many people see the Chuck incident as the beginning of the end for the investigation aspect of the forum. But, in reality, the decline started long before that. Though, the chuck incident did clearly highlight the shifting attitude within the site’s community regarding the importance of practical martial skill and knowledge…in forum leaders especially.

The Chuck incident showed clearly that there was a Bullshido version of the “blue wall of silence” and that, because of Chuck’s willingness to finish investigations, the powers that be here were willing to sweep many things under the rug before the story went public…and the community at large would do the same after it went public. When those of us that were concerned about Chuck’s unethical (criminal?) behavior regarding investigations were getting nowhere with private off forum discussion, we assumed that exposing Chucks lack of martial skill would be a no-brainer for the community and open the door to addressing the more serious concerns with him. How could one of the site main investigators lie about his own credentials? But, we all know what happened. Yes, Chuck finally was banned (not from sociocide), but it was a painful process. Many people here did not like the possibility of looking in that same mirror regarding their own training and image on the site. The community circled the wagons. How could this guy pose his way into such a position of power at the site? It shone a light on some serious problems here. Those problems still exist as we can see. In any event, the result of the Chuck incident was a mass exodus of the most dedicated investigators or at least a decision to not be involved in investigations any longer (myself included). But, this was not only about Chuck. Chuck was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

In truth, Bullshido’s decline in the investigation realm started before all this. It came to a head when the debate was raging about substantiating Bullshido’s legitimacy as an investigative body. Were we journalists? Could we accept that role? Would that open us up to lawsuits? The general feeling of the powers that be was to hide behind the anonymous nature of the posters and open nature of the forum. The notion that the site did not edit threads and that anyone could freely post would save us from lawsuits. But we knew this was a crock. We did edit final articles and we wanted our legitimacy as investigators. But we could not have our cake and eat it too. Behind the scenes and in part on the boards, the debate raged about how to protect the site AND build our investigative wing. Paranoia over lawsuits killed us. True, myself and many others were named in suits against the site. But, for me and many others, that simply came with the territory. In the end, we blew it. Bullshido was set to blow up in a serious way. We fucked it up and never recovered what we had.

Our investigations were getting bigger and better, and we were addressing more serious topics outside the local mom & pop McDojo bullshit. Many noobs here probably have no idea as to the length we would go for investigations. The time came that we needed to **** or get off the pot. To become more legit we needed to evolve past what the site was. We discussed building a separate website specific for the investigation wing, separate from the forums; Like a cyber magazine so to speak. I had nurtured a relationship with Real Fighter magazine who published a story rooted in one of our investigations. The magazine was interested in a regular Bullshido column. We had our moment! We could build a new site and have published works on a regular basis. But this all went bust and I, who brokered the relationship with the magazine, was left looking like an idiot. We never published because there was too much debate over wording of the writer’s contract, who would take credit, who would get sued, who would defend a suit, etc. These were all important, but not unworkable details. In the end, we wanted to bust frauds, but were afraid of the natural consequences…possible lawsuits. Shortly after this, the Chuck event happened and killed the investigation aspect of the site all together. And, for me, the main reason for my presence here.

I am sure many will have differing versions of this story and there are things I have not mentioned in the name of brevity. But, this is the cliff notes version of how I see it.

**SifuAbel** · Posted On: 11/28/2012 11:46pm

As to the experts being replaced by the VTFs. Wasn't that by design? This forum's priority was for "the lulz". It didn't matter who was the soup d'jour as long as people got a chance to dig in.

Hell the very reason for me being enemy #1 was me pointing all of the above out in one way or another.

But there it is.

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 11/28/2012 11:53pm

I must've joined at the peak of that wave, sambosteve. Bullshido investigations were fucking mesmerising, to the point that when they were going on, man, it was fucking electric. I'm not saying I was involved, but to watch them unfold was often a thing of beauty. I remember if something was posted in MABS, my computer couldn't load it fast enough to see the details of a new development. Now a thread can be posted in MABS and I get the feeling I'm just going to have to report it for "not [being] MABS-worthy" before I even open it. I would also recommend every n00b to check out MABS threads that sambosteve mentioned.

There has been discussion on the site's direction and I am sure you are correct in many of the things to which you referred.I would just like to say that Bullshido has served other purposes, one of which was to get my head out of my arse to stop looking for a Mystical Martial Arts Mr Miyagi type and start training properly. Incidentally, when I started training properly, I found Mr Miyagi (the board member). I still owe this community a lot from that, as my subsequent training has lead me to where I am today and where I will be tomorrow is much further along in my journey.

On top of that, I still see threads like mine that thank Bullshido for stopping them training in some bullshit art. That's one of Bullshido's objectives, from my understanding, maybe not a primary, but it is still fulfilling that objective. Granted, we could probably be doing it more effectively and that would require a consistent approach, but it is still happening.