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  1. #1
    blackmonk's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The path that BJJ has taken...

    This might be fairly open-ended, but bear with me...

    We have seen the role of BJJ change over the years, in the sport of MMA. As it develops into its own style, BJJ has assumed a less important role, despite it still remaining a fundamental skill. Good wrestlers have shut down great BJJ guys, even in pure grappling competitions, and in my mind, BJJ has taken more of a "sport" turn... ie berimbolo, inverted guard, etc.

    So if someone were to ask you what they should study in order to have functional skills in both sport and street, what would you recommend? Would it still include BJJ? What about sambo?

    Obviously I am a sambo d00d, but my intentions here are pure... I am just thinking of how to apply the more experienced guys' answers to my own training.

  2. #2
    blackmonk's Avatar
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    For example, I have noticed in my recent training with jnp, that my more sambo-oriented approach to groundwork makes for a different game. He can still catch me 10 times out of 10, but I am starting to see how sambo strategy can trump BJJ strategy in some ways... with pinning, for instance.

    The flipside, of course, is that the sambo, wrestling, and judo strategy of turtling is not as strong as regaining guard.

  3. #3

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cross-train sooner?

  4. #4

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    I turtle all the time. It's not a strategy. If I was somewhere there was no ref to save me or penalty for being on my back I wouldn't turtle. what is a berimbolo and what makes it just "sport" jiu jitsu?

  5. #5
    Naszir's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Berimbolo is a sweep that was made popular by Atos, specifically the Mendes brothers and the Miyaos.

  6. #6
    jnp's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    This might be fairly open-ended, but bear with me...

    We have seen the role of BJJ change over the years, in the sport of MMA. As it develops into its own style, BJJ has assumed a less important role, despite it still remaining a fundamental skill. Good wrestlers have shut down great BJJ guys, even in pure grappling competitions, and in my mind, BJJ has taken more of a "sport" turn... ie berimbolo, inverted guard, etc.

    So if someone were to ask you what they should study in order to have functional skills in both sport and street, what would you recommend? Would it still include BJJ? What about sambo?

    Obviously I am a sambo d00d, but my intentions here are pure... I am just thinking of how to apply the more experienced guys' answers to my own training.
    I assume you're aware that Helio was complaining about the negative influence of sport BJJ 20-15 years ago?

    There is no doubt that BJJ is moving away from self defense applications as it becomes more popular as a sport. Fewer and fewer BJJ gyms have self defense classes it seems.

    If you're a blue belt or higher that has never done any MMA style sparring while in the guard, side control or mount positions, you probably have an unrealistic perspective on BJJ.
    Shut the hell up and train.

  7. #7

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    Not sure if this addresses your question but I'll post it anyway. The article discusses some of your concerns.

    This year, the Nationals will be different: the points system has been discarded, meaning the only way a competitor can win a match and advance on to the next round is to submit their opponent during their allotted 15-minute period. (A fighter can win their entire division in one match if they're the only one to get a submission in it).

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...cie/index.html

  8. #8
    JingMerchant!'s Avatar
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    "So, yeah, Zen teachers may well insult you, work you to the bone, hit you with sticks, shout verbal abuse at you, and punch the **** out of you.
    And when the ****'s been punched out of you, you might just find that you're far better-off without it." - Vieux Normand

    "So in short, BJJ wins again. BJJ, and chainmail." - TheMightyMcClaw

    "On bullshido, your opinions are not sacred, neither are your feelings." - Scrapper

    "You entered the lions' den. Don't bitch if you get eaten." - danniboi07

    "Needless to say, it's much easier to clear a bunch of drunk kids out of your house when you're yelling GTFO and carrying a samurai sword." - DerAuslander

    "Eventually, I realized it doesn't matter what art you train, what matters is the method in which you train. Training in an alive manner, under skilled and qualified instruction, is the single most important aspect of gaining martial skill. All else is window dressing." - JNP : Saying it how it is!

  9. #9
    JingMerchant!'s Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "So, yeah, Zen teachers may well insult you, work you to the bone, hit you with sticks, shout verbal abuse at you, and punch the **** out of you.
    And when the ****'s been punched out of you, you might just find that you're far better-off without it." - Vieux Normand

    "So in short, BJJ wins again. BJJ, and chainmail." - TheMightyMcClaw

    "On bullshido, your opinions are not sacred, neither are your feelings." - Scrapper

    "You entered the lions' den. Don't bitch if you get eaten." - danniboi07

    "Needless to say, it's much easier to clear a bunch of drunk kids out of your house when you're yelling GTFO and carrying a samurai sword." - DerAuslander

    "Eventually, I realized it doesn't matter what art you train, what matters is the method in which you train. Training in an alive manner, under skilled and qualified instruction, is the single most important aspect of gaining martial skill. All else is window dressing." - JNP : Saying it how it is!

  10. #10
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
    BKR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    For example, I have noticed in my recent training with jnp, that my more sambo-oriented approach to groundwork makes for a different game. He can still catch me 10 times out of 10, but I am starting to see how sambo strategy can trump BJJ strategy in some ways... with pinning, for instance.

    The flipside, of course, is that the sambo, wrestling, and judo strategy of turtling is not as strong as regaining guard.
    Nobody MAKES you turtle, do they. You can decide what you want to do when you want to do it, not be restricted by some sort of "strategy".

    Pin JNP and call him dirty names, I hear he likes it like that.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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