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  1. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 7:47pm


     

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    God, I hate the "use their energy against them" line. (That and referring to any version of the chun as a soft style is just wrong). Force is force. How you apply it is not esoteric conceptual hoodoo; its measurable, repeatable science. No one uses another's energy. You just apply force. In judo you use levers to apply force and deliver pain to your opponent.


    What you've seen of judo you lack the context to understand. The jujitsu you've observed has been compliant crap. This makes your conclusions, however intuitive they appear, highly suspect.

    What "works" is alive training and a robust environment of high intensity competition. Something many of us here have a lot of experience with.
    Understandable, I'm just saying don't miss read the term "soft art", if it makes you feel better you can look at it as direct or indirect. Throwing someone is most effective when you have control over your balance and center and uproot your opponent. this is referred to as soft. vs picking someone up and throwing them or directly impacting there force with interception such as in Hsing-I.

    I disagree with our opinion of not using someone else's energy. When we move we are directing energy, on multiple planes of existence, by miss directing one you throw the whole body off. When someone moves foward towards you there mind, and body are commited and all there energy is being put into moving forward. if you reposition and move to allow there moment ENERGY to move past you. your using your energy for the throw.

    further the use of energy can go to a deeper spiritual level as well but we'll not go there for now...

    as far as my lacking the context understand...very well I will not argue that, if in fact you have had formal training in judo, if not your conclusions are just as bogus as mine.
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 8:07pm

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     Style: BJJ

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    I didn't bring up other arts save for Jiu-jitsu. your quality control doesn't exist. go around to different schools. they are all different the only thing that is the same is the forms. so even if you help him settle on a single style he still needs to explore schools.
    for example tae kwon do:
    I. K. Kim Tae Kwon Do
    Cherry Grove Taekwondo
    Cincinnati Tae Kwon Do Academy
    Cincinnati TKD
    Paramount Fitness Tae Kwon Do
    U S Tae Kwon DO Assn
    Cincinnati Martial Arts Club
    US Taekwondo Association

    ALL Tae Kwon Do schools ALL different...I've been to most of these, when researching Tae Kwon Do before choosing CMAC for about 4 years.
    Once again missing the point, the styles that where suggested in this thread have built in quality control. We didn't talk about TDK in fact this is one of the reasons TDK wasn't brought up or 1000 other martial arts. We gave the Greek a short list of good martial arts that have built into them Alive training and a measure of quality control.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    Self-defense I'm beyond qualified to give.
    Based on what? Given your predilection to accept Boxing but not Judo based on the fact Boxing is a striking art shows a certain lack of understanding of Self Defense application.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    You didn't say join lock you said limb destruction.
    What is the end result of a Joint Lock that is fully applied?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    No I've not been formally trained in Judo. However I did not seen a sign saying "only give advice on what you have trained for most of your martial arts career..." so I gave my advice from what I've seen.
    So you thought hey this guy is looking for qualified advise to protect himself in a possibly life or death situation so I will give him advise about something I don't really know about?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    As to joint lock and choke even these are limited, you can not place your forearm on there throat and lean down, nor can you place your knee on there throat. you can put them in a stranglehold is the only rule I've see that invovles choking...
    No one argued if they where limited or not. They are however street effective chokes, in fact more so than say putting your knee on someones throat. Yes the elbow is the primary joint attacked its also once again one of the more effective joints to attack. The only thing really lacking from Judo as far as joint locking goes that are largely effective are leg locks.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    Ok sure you think my information is false, great. that's good you want to protect people from false information. So state your corrections and be done with it. but your picking appart everything I said and trying to make it all sound like BS.
    Not my fault that you speak without being able to back up what you say with facts, this makes everything you say sound like BS. Your on a website that is based on routing out BS if you sound like your full of it your going to be called out for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    personally would do...wait that's an opinion nothing false there...judo is a soft art FACT.
    Based on a very limited and crude understanding of Judo. As already said to you Judo is more about using levers and timing than their force. You have this pseudo-intellectual view of judo. You don't have the practical mat experience to comment on it.
    Also based on your definition of what a soft art is Jui-Jistu is also a "soft" art.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    however having some exposure to judo over the years gives me all the experience i need to give an basic generalized OPINION!
    See how your being called out for your limited experience and how that opinion isn't being respected

    Its because your sitting right on top of mount stupid.
  3. Scrapper is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 8:20pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    Understandable, I'm just saying don't miss read the term "soft art", if it makes you feel better you can look at it as direct or indirect. Throwing someone is most effective when you have control over your balance and center and uproot your opponent. this is referred to as soft. vs picking someone up and throwing them or directly impacting there force with interception such as in Hsing-I.

    I disagree with our opinion of not using someone else's energy. When we move we are directing energy, on multiple planes of existence, by miss directing one you throw the whole body off. When someone moves foward towards you there mind, and body are commited and all there energy is being put into moving forward. if you reposition and move to allow there moment ENERGY to move past you. your using your energy for the throw.

    further the use of energy can go to a deeper spiritual level as well but we'll not go there for now...

    as far as my lacking the context understand...very well I will not argue that, if in fact you have had formal training in judo, if not your conclusions are just as bogus as mine.
    Judo for ten years. Boxing four. Jujitsu for three. Competed in all of them.

    But yeah. When a shaolin do guy starts waxing eloquent on "Multiple planes of existence" and "spiritual levels" in a self defense context, its time to eject from the conversation. We will be developing our chi next.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  4. Like Water is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 8:24pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    I didn't bring up other arts save for Jiu-jitsu....
    for example tae kwon do:
    These were close by in the same paragraph. You HAD previously brought up other arts (you commented on, what, five in your first post?) and now you're trying to bring up an entirely irrelevant art to distract us from the fact that you're full of ****? Not working.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    bullshit...Judo I'll not argue on

    You didn't say join lock you said limb destruction. both my older brother and boss at work have been doing Judo for many years. YES my knowledge of it, is second hand. No I've not been formally trained in Judo. However I did not seen a sign saying "only give advice on what you have trained for most of your martial arts career..." so I gave my advice from what I've seen.
    You go from saying you won't argue that you have no knowledge of judo, to arguing that you do because someone you know practices judo. Just noting this.

    Also, he obviously meant limb-destruction as in how a joint lock can end on the street, without a referee. As in, in a self-defense situation, as is being discussed in this thread. Get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    Ok sure you think my information is false, great. that's good you want to protect people from false information. So state your corrections and be done with it. but your picking appart everything I said and trying to make it all sound like BS.
    bull·shit/ˈbo͝olˌ****/

    Noun:vulgar. Stupid or untrue talk or writing; nonsense.

    Goodlun pointed out that what you were saying was false. You say that's fine one sentence, and are outraged about it in the next. Are you, perhaps, two people posting simultaneously?


    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    yep, I mean look at ALL that false information I gave...
    Yes, we can see it. That's the beauty of the forum layout.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    ...judo is a soft art FACT. jiu-jitsu in my opinion...what another opinion nothing false there...
    Judo is only a soft art when you make up your own definition of the word "soft", as you have here, and/or when you know jack **** about Judo, which you obviously do. In my opinion, (take note of what an informed opinion actually looks like) Judo is a harder art than Jiu-Jitsu, because all the being thrown and slammed makes for a much rougher sport, with a lot more injuries to my frail little body. Whereas jiu-jitsu mostly operates on the ground, with joint locks and chokes, where I'm in control of how dangerous the situation is and can end it at any time with a tapout.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    many schools have become more sport.
    Boxing, BJJ, Muay Thai, etc. are sports, is all Goodlun was trying to say to you. They haven't become "more sport", because they couldn't possible be MORE sport. They are what they are. Sports that make for excellent self-defence practice as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    but I do know something about it... infact I know alot of somethings about it. The list of somethings just happen to be EXTREMELY limited.
    Contradicting yourself again. If you don't have multiple personalities typing at once, you're gonna be hard pressed to convince me you're not an idiot.
  5. frenchie88 is online now

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 8:29pm


     Style: Yagyu Shinkage Ryu

    6
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll just leave this here:

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ultracrepidarian

    ul·tra·crep·i·dar·i·an

      [uhl-truh-krep-i-dair-ee-uhn] Show IPA
    adjective 1. noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside the area of his or her expertise:
  6. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 8:55pm


     

    -3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    Judo for ten years. Boxing four. Jujitsu for three. Competed in all of them.

    But yeah. When a shaolin do guy starts waxing eloquent on "Multiple planes of existence" and "spiritual levels" in a self defense context, its time to eject from the conversation. We will be developing our chi next.
    Being a Shaolin Do guy has nothing to do with multiple planes of existence being a spiritualist does. It case you didn't know many spiritualist have been put martial arts and spirituality side by side. You may not care about the the mind body and soul and only be focused on the physcial side, you may be an atheist I dont' care. that doesn't change the fact that internal development is just as important as external but once again this is all off topic.
  7. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 9:10pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Once again missing the point, the styles that where suggested in this thread have built in quality control. We didn't talk about TDK in fact this is one of the reasons TDK wasn't brought up or 1000 other martial arts. We gave the Greek a short list of good martial arts that have built into them Alive training and a measure of quality control.
    That's an example because TKD is one of the easiest asides from Karate, they are a dime a dozen. different people teach different ways period. and if you go to a cookie cutter school that isn't going to give there own experience then they are not teaching you correctly. I say the most effective way to teach is to adapt with a living art. Times change, and so should the arts.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Based on what? Given your predilection to accept Boxing but not Judo based on the fact Boxing is a striking art shows a certain lack of understanding of Self Defense application.
    Never said I didn't accept Judo, and boxing isn't my favorite. I think boxing is a good starting point, and as I've said. Judo is a fine art, I just personally like what I've researched from Jiu-jitsu over what I've researched from Judo. As far as my qualification to give advice on self-defense the conversations doesn't messure that. knowledge or lack of knowledge of judo doesn't rule someone out to be able to teach or advise on self defense. 18 years of experience including teaching is what qualifies me for the self defense part.


    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    What is the end result of a Joint Lock that is fully applied?
    You stated you could do a limb destruction in tournament. this is false. Also moving from a joint lock to a break or dislocation is different then going straight to destorying the joint. you ever hear the saying you fight how you train? once again I didn't say Judo was ****, nor that it wasn't worthy of learning. I said I would recommend Jiu-jitsu for the same reason I would recommend Tang Soo Do over Tae Kwon Do.


    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    So you thought hey this guy is looking for qualified advise to protect himself in a possibly life or death situation so I will give him advise about something I don't really know about?
    I do know about Judo, I don't know judo there is a difference. since your SO against me telling him to consider Jiu-jitsu over Judo then lets hear why you think Judo is superior to Jiu-jitsu?


    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    No one argued if they where limited or not. They are however street effective chokes, in fact more so than say putting your knee on someones throat. Yes the elbow is the primary joint attacked its also once again one of the more effective joints to attack. The only thing really lacking from Judo as far as joint locking goes that are largely effective are leg locks.
    I didn't say they where not street effective! also I would sooner put my knee on someones' throat exspecially if there where mutliple attackers. of course this depends on your training.


    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Not my fault that you speak without being able to back up what you say with facts, this makes everything you say sound like BS. Your on a website that is based on routing out BS if you sound like your full of it your going to be called out for it.
    I'm sorry where are you facts? your saying it just so there. I dont' see any references so how are you not bullshitting?



    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Based on a very limited and crude understanding of Judo. As already said to you Judo is more about using levers and timing than their force. You have this pseudo-intellectual view of judo. You don't have the practical mat experience to comment on it.
    Also based on your definition of what a soft art is Jui-Jistu is also a "soft" art.
    People comment on what ever they want I didn't give him a fine tuned explanation of what judo is I nor did I go in to great depth or detail I gave him some things to think about.


    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    See how your being called out for your limited experience and how that opinion isn't being respected

    Its because your sitting right on top of mount stupid.
  8. Like Water is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 9:22pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post


    You stated you could do a limb destruction in tournament. this is false. Also moving from a joint lock to a break or dislocation is different then going straight to destorying the joint. you ever hear the saying you fight how you train? once again I didn't say Judo was ****, nor that it wasn't worthy of learning. I said I would recommend Jiu-jitsu for the same reason I would recommend Tang Soo Do over Tae Kwon Do.
    Why yes, that was false. False that that was something he said.
    As opposed to throwing, controlling, choking, and limb destroying?
    You two were talking about self-defence when he said this.

    Also, "moving from a joint lock to limb destruction" can be as simple as lifting your hips half an inch, when you're doing actual joint locks. ie, judo joint locks, which you know nothing about.

    So please, Blaze. Shut the **** up and quit muddying up this thread with your idiocy.
  9. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 9:27pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    These were close by in the same paragraph. You HAD previously brought up other arts (you commented on, what, five in your first post?) and now you're trying to bring up an entirely irrelevant art to distract us from the fact that you're full of ****? Not working.
    so do you know how to read? try reading the original post by the greek. I mentioned the 4 he brought up, plus brought up 1 new one. I brought up an art that is similar to judo...oh wait since i dont' know anything maybe the experts comment if judo is not similar to jiu-jitsu...also I pose the same question to you. if my post is false then your saying your in opposition to jiu-jisu being superior to judo so go ahead and explain why judo is superior? I was simply saying I liked what I read bout it better.


    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    You go from saying you won't argue that you have no knowledge of judo, to arguing that you do because someone you know practices judo. Just noting this.
    No I went from saying agreeing I have no direction knowledge. as in I've never taken a class on it nor pursued it. I do have knowledge OF judo. through research, watching others, and speaking with practioners of said style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    Also, he obviously meant limb-destruction as in how a joint lock can end on the street, without a referee. As in, in a self-defense situation, as is being discussed in this thread. Get it?
    consider how your splitting hairs here with everyone word I write he didn't say that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    Goodlun pointed out that what you were saying was false. You say that's fine one sentence, and are outraged about it in the next. Are you, perhaps, two people posting simultaneously?
    I'm saying it's fine he thinks it's false. his approach is rude, but since your doing the same thing I guess that's normal for these forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    Yes, we can see it. That's the beauty of the forum layout.
    that was rhetorical

    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    Judo is only a soft art when you make up your own definition of the word "soft", as you have here, and/or when you know jack **** about Judo, which you obviously do. In my opinion, (take note of what an informed opinion actually looks like) Judo is a harder art than Jiu-Jitsu, because all the being thrown and slammed makes for a much rougher sport, with a lot more injuries to my frail little body. Whereas jiu-jitsu mostly operates on the ground, with joint locks and chokes, where I'm in control of how dangerous the situation is and can end it at any time with a tapout.
    i'm sorry according to who's definiton?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_an...artial_arts%29
    "Soft technique- The goal of the soft technique is turning the attacker’s force to his or her disadvantage, with the defender exerting minimal force"

    "Hard technique- A hard technique meets force with force; either with a head-on-force blocking technique, or by diagonally cutting the strike with (one's) force."

    http://www.military-sf.com/styles.htm
    "JUDO: (Japanese-Guiding Force-Soft art). Not nearly as passive as Aikido this deals a lot more with getting in close to the foe and grappling. Judo means 'the way of flexibility'. Created toward the end of the 19th century. Judoka is one who practices Judo."

    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    Contradicting yourself again. If you don't have multiple personalities typing at once, you're gonna be hard pressed to convince me you're not an idiot.
    once again not a contradiction. experience and knowledge of are not always hand in hand. studying something and have basic knowledge of it is not the same as actually doing it. In this case sure they have done judo so there knowledge and experience far out weights my basic knowledge only of it. that does not mean I dont' know **** about.

    considering you guys dont' seem to know the difference of between a soft art and hard art.

    further more your missing the original point. I was giving sound advice and gave a few opinions on an art I've not done.
  10. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2012 9:36pm


     

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    Why yes, that was false. False that that was something he said.
    You two were talking about self-defence when he said this.

    Also, "moving from a joint lock to limb destruction" can be as simple as lifting your hips half an inch, when you're doing actual joint locks. ie, judo joint locks, which you know nothing about.

    So please, Blaze. Shut the **** up and quit muddying up this thread with your idiocy.
    Yep your right I went back and reread that. However I'd like to know these schools that train you for limb destruction yet say you can't do it in a tournament.

    so your a life or death situation and you advise to put them in a joint lock rather then breaking there arm? I'm sorry but if my family is on the line or my life they are dead. I'm not playing. right, right, idiocy whatever...
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