Explain how Judo is not a soft art?...because it is.

[goodlun]

more nonsense

A Judoka can choice to follow someone to the ground or not. Judo does teach joint locks. They do not focus on standing joint locks because well they are not very effective. This is the same reason BJJ also doesn't focus on standing joint locks. Don't get me wrong BJJ or Judo guy can do a standing wrist or elbow lock or standing choke or what ever but they are low percentage moves. This goes for anyone doing them.

[BlazeLeeDragon]

Sigh, you don't get it. I highly doubt you have been from school to school or for that matter style to style. I have trained at 3 BJJ schools, 1 GJJ school, 3 Judo Schools. They all taught in the same way this is because its integral to the art. The concept of Randori and aliveness is built into the system. There is quality control system built in to this type of instruction. All of the instructors have been trained using more or less the same methodology. Yes some of the instructors are better at instructing than others but at any of those schools your going to learn the art in a quality setting with quality instruction.

You'd be surprised how many "versions" of each art that are out there. I have been to multiple schools, and each one has trained differently. Many schools branch off from the original source when it came over to America. So unless you go with one branch of schools other schools teaching the same styles are different. I've been to about 30-40 different schools and I've found most of the tae kwon do, tang soo do, karate, kung fu, tai chi, etc have all taught different even if the school claimed the same style. If your finding the same training in each school your going to cookie cutter schools with a dead art that is not growing and changing. if that's what you like that is fine. But anyone who asks me I'll tell them to go to different schools till they find a fit.

You have no freaking clue do you?
You should do some research start with Vale Tudo, the Gracie Challenge, UFC 1-10, Pride ect. Mixed Martial Arts is a term for a Combat Sport whos biggest promotion is currently the UFC.

Obviously I have more of a clue then you and your limited perception. I'm speaking form the MMA fighters I have met I'm sorry we didn't meet the same people but you know there actually alot more people in the world then the ones you've met. seriously there is even other countries in case you didn't know.

A very uniformed opinion, maybe you should get more information before you start recommending things to people.

Now your talking out your ass again, I've met and spoken with and sparred with both Jiu-jitsu practioners and judo practioniers. as everyone was giving there input he gets a well rounded idea of other's views. I'm sorry I've not trained in every art known to man but I do have my limitations. I like Jiu-jitsu better, so get over it.

As opposed to throwing, controlling, choking, and limb destroying?
Maybe you may want to go back to the 90s and look at Grappling vs Striking.

ok obviously you've never been to a judo tournament nor watched out. if you chock or destory a limb in one you'll be disqualified. and sure give the guy advice to grab the guy with a knife real smart...

Muay Thai is the sport. There is no "combat" Muay Thai. Muay Thai is an effective fighting art. It is not some ancient battle field art.

of course, of course...muay thai wouldn't be illegal in the states...at all...
maybe from your perspective fine, but not from everyone's...and I didn't say it's a battle field art so dont' put words in my mouth.

Sight, Judo does have a standing focus, but it doesn't neglect ground work, they work on pinning techniques, choking techniques, and joint locking techniques with aliveness against a resisting opponent. Also most fights will end with a good judo throw, even if they don't a judoka is going to be fine on the ground against anyone who isn't a BJJ guy.

I will not argue your points here because they are sound points.

That is because you don't know **** about Judo or Jiu-jitsu

you need to get off your high horse and realize your don't know everything. I don't know what your problem is but going out of your way to attack my post is pretty pathetic. you even magically ended up on one of the gun posts I did...get alife. If you disagree post your opinion, but you don't know everything you think you do.

[goodlun]

Obviously I have more of a clue then you and your limited perception. I'm speaking form the MMA fighters I have met I'm sorry we didn't meet the same people but you know there actually alot more people in the world then the ones you've met. seriously there is even other countries in case you didn't know.

What are you babbling about MMA is a combat sport that is what it is.

Now your talking out your ass again, I've met and spoken with and sparred with both Jiu-jitsu practioners and judo practioniers. as everyone was giving there input he gets a well rounded idea of other's views. I'm sorry I've not trained in every art known to man but I do have my limitations. I like Jiu-jitsu better, so get over it.

Your not trained in the Arts your talking about or giving your opinion about nor do you have sufficient knowledge about them to tell Martial Art beginners about them.

ok obviously you've never been to a judo tournament nor watched out. if you chock or destory a limb in one you'll be disqualified.

Proof that you have 0 clue as to what your talking about. Proof that you have never been to a judo tournament, proof that you have never competed in one, proof that you don't have even a basic understanding of judo. proof I am right about you knowing nothing about the subject your so quick to give advise on.

of course, of course...muay thai wouldn't be illegal in the states...at all...
maybe from your perspective fine, but not from everyone's...and I didn't say it's a battle field art so dont' put words in my mouth.

Muay Thai isn't illegal, in fact NO martial arts are illegal in the US. Muay Thai Competition isn't even illegal here. Once again you talking about something you know next to nothing about.

you need to get off your high horse and realize your don't know everything. I don't know what your problem is but going out of your way to attack my post is pretty pathetic. you even magically ended up on one of the gun posts I did...get alife. If you disagree post your opinion, but you don't know everything you think you do.

Never said I know everything, but when I post advice to people in this section its because it is something I do actually know about. In the future it would behoove you to do the same.

[BlazeLeeDragon]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking around the forums for quite some time due to the entertainment factor and the fact that I appreciate the straight-up, no BS attitude when it comes to training to fight. I would like to get your personal opinions on the very serious topic of self-defense...

Well I hope my opinion was helpful to you and I also hope that the back and fourth was to your benefit. You'll see this a lot everyone has there own opinion. So I suggest take no ones word and keep searching and form your own opinion ;) best of luck to you.

[BlazeLeeDragon]

blah blah

Whatever, keep patting yourself on the back. Oh wise and all knowing bullshitter who knows all arts and if you don't think something is accurate it must not be... man if you do martial arts as well as you talk **** you must be amazing!

I find it amusing you are lecture on who can say what to people based on there training, when you've had no escrima, boxing or muay thai training...funny how there is a double standard...hmmm

[goodlun]

Whatever, keep patting yourself on the back. Oh wise and all knowing bullshitter who knows all arts and if you don't think something is accurate it must not be... man if you do martial arts as well as you talk **** you must be amazing!

I find it amusing you are lecture on who can say what to people based on there training, when you've had no escrima, boxing or muay thai training...funny how there is a double standard...hmmm

Never claimed to know every martial art. In fact if you pay attention you will find that for the most part I steer clear of the traditional martial arts forums.
When I start lecturing you about Boxing, Muay Thai and Escrima (something I have said nothing about to you) beyond your factual inaccuracies then we can talk about it.
However I have had boxing, Muay Thai, and MMA instruction. These are not things I train in regularly as I prefer grappling.

[BlazeLeeDragon]

Never claimed to know every martial art. In fact if you pay attention you will find that for the most part I steer clear of the traditional martial arts forums.
When I start lecturing you about Boxing, Muay Thai and Escrima (something I have said nothing about to you) beyond your factual inaccuracies then we can talk about it.
However I have had boxing, Muay Thai, and MMA instruction. These are not things I train in regularly as I prefer grappling.

I too have had instruction in boxing, and escrima and have been shown some of the moves and techniques from muay thai, judo, and jiu-jitsu (as these are the only ones relavent)

my main point to the greek was to research and try different schools and instructors which anyone with a lick of sense would see is good advice. the rest is my opinion and take from the research i've done. the point of forums. fine you dont' think "i'm qualified to offer advice to noobies" that's your opinion. but going back and fourth over things you've also have had limited exposure to, is rude and dickish. instead of wasting time trying to shoulder in your opinion over mine, just give your own advice. I dont' expect everyone to agree with me. I've been studying and trying different martial arts for going on 18 years. I'm by no means an expert but I've been around and I find my advise to be sound which has also been the opinion of many other martial artists I've spoken with.

the issue I have with this is your generalizing that because your experience doesn't match with my opinion or take on the arts then they must not be factual which is just plane horse ****. The FACT, is there is great difference from school to school and person to person. that's the value of these forums to get MANY views and compare.

[goodlun]

I too have had instruction in boxing, and escrima and have been shown some of the moves and techniques from muay thai, judo, and jiu-jitsu (as these are the only ones relavent)

Being shown moves and techniques are not instruction in.

my main point to the greek was to research and try different schools and instructors which anyone with a lick of sense would see is good advice.

What you don't get is we are point him in the direction of arts that by there nature are trained in a manner referred to as aliveness that is standard across the art. This standard also insures quality control in the art. This is so he doesn't have to go to 100 different schools. Also a beginner doesn't necessarily know what to look for to see if it is an effective martial art. Hence why we point beginners to arts that have a proven track record of quality control and effectiveness.

the rest is my opinion and take from the research i've done. the point of forums. fine you dont' think "i'm qualified to offer advice to noobies" that's your opinion.

When it comes to the subject of Judo and self defense you are not qualified to give advice you have been factually wrong about Judo. The fact that you CAN choke someone out in a tournament and the fact that you can win by joint lock are facts. If you don't even know how someone can win at Judo how can you comment on it.

but going back and fourth over things you've also have had limited exposure to, is rude and dickish.

I have A LOT of exposure to Judo, as well as combat sports as a whole.

instead of wasting time trying to shoulder in your opinion over mine, just give your own advice. I dont' expect everyone to agree with me.

You opinion that is based on false information should be exposed for what it is.

I've been studying and trying different martial arts for going on 18 years. I'm by no means an expert but I've been around and I find my advise to be sound which has also been the opinion of many other martial artists I've spoken with.

I would think if you had any actual experience over these last 18 years you would know when you have no idea about something. IE Judo. You have 0 experience with it but your going to tell other people about it.

the issue I have with this is your generalizing that because your experience doesn't match with my opinion or take on the arts then they must not be factual which is just plane horse ****. The FACT, is there is great difference from school to school and person to person. that's the value of these forums to get MANY views and compare.

This isn't what we have been arguing. We are arguing the fact your giving advise about something you don't know about.

[Scrapper]

Soft means using your opponent's energy against them. It means your not muscling all the movements. Tai chi, pakua and wing chun are other examples of soft arts. The reason I said Jiu-jitsu is recommended over Judo is that most of the techniques I've seen used are bone breaking and joint dislocations. where as with judo I see alot of tumbling and falling with them to a ground grapple position. I did say in my original post that Judo is effective but i would recommend Jiu-jitsu over judo.
N


here, judo throws, they fall to the ground on top of the opponent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOV3qVIEFng

jiu-jitsu throws they stay standing in a lot of them http://youtu.be/TLztV4pHZKM

God, I hate the "use their energy against them" line. (That and referring to any version of the chun as a soft style is just wrong). Force is force. How you apply it is not esoteric conceptual hoodoo; its measurable, repeatable science. No one uses another's energy. You just apply force. In judo you use levers to apply force and deliver pain to your opponent.


What you've seen of judo you lack the context to understand. The jujitsu you've observed has been compliant crap. This makes your conclusions, however intuitive they appear, highly suspect.

What "works" is alive training and a robust environment of high intensity competition. Something many of us here have a lot of experience with.

[BlazeLeeDragon]

Being shown moves and techniques are not instruction in.

no argument there

What you don't get is we are point him in the direction of arts that by there nature are trained in a manner referred to as aliveness that is standard across the art. This standard also insures quality control in the art. This is so he doesn't have to go to 100 different schools. Also a beginner doesn't necessarily know what to look for to see if it is an effective martial art. Hence why we point beginners to arts that have a proven track record of quality control and effectiveness.

I didn't bring up other arts save for Jiu-jitsu. your quality control doesn't exist. go around to different schools. they are all different the only thing that is the same is the forms. so even if you help him settle on a single style he still needs to explore schools.
for example tae kwon do:
I. K. Kim Tae Kwon Do
Cherry Grove Taekwondo
Cincinnati Tae Kwon Do Academy
Cincinnati TKD
Paramount Fitness Tae Kwon Do
U S Tae Kwon DO Assn
Cincinnati Martial Arts Club
US Taekwondo Association

ALL Tae Kwon Do schools ALL different...I've been to most of these, when researching Tae Kwon Do before choosing CMAC for about 4 years.

When it comes to the subject of Judo and self defense you are not qualified to give advice you have been factually wrong about Judo. The fact that you CAN choke someone out in a tournament and the fact that you can win by joint lock are facts. If you don't even know how someone can win at Judo how can you comment on it.

bullshit...Judo I'll not argue on Self-defense I'm beyond qualified to give. You didn't say join lock you said limb destruction. both my older brother and boss at work have been doing Judo for many years. YES my knowledge of it, is second hand. No I've not been formally trained in Judo. However I did not seen a sign saying "only give advice on what you have trained for most of your martial arts career..." so I gave my advice from what I've seen.

As to joint lock and choke even these are limited, you can not place your forearm on there throat and lean down, nor can you place your knee on there throat. you can put them in a stranglehold is the only rule I've see that invovles choking...

http://judoinfo.com/new/alphabetical...tion-penalties
HANSOKU-MAKE (Grave Infringements Group)
25) To apply Kansetsu-waza anywhere other than to the elbow joint.
30) To make any action which may endanger or injure the opponent especially the opponent's neck or spinal vertebrae, or may be against the spirit of Judo.

You opinion that is based on false information should be exposed for what it is.

Ok sure you think my information is false, great. that's good you want to protect people from false information. So state your corrections and be done with it. but your picking appart everything I said and trying to make it all sound like BS.

I would think if you had any actual experience over these last 18 years you would know when you have no idea about something. IE Judo. You have 0 experience with it but your going to tell other people about it.

yep, I mean look at ALL that false information I gave...

Judo: Personally I would do jiu jitsu over Judo. Judo though it can be effective it's a soft art where as jiu jitsu in my opinion is more street worthy. Judo in many schools has become a "sport"

personally would do...wait that's an opinion nothing false there...judo is a soft art FACT. jiu-jitsu in my opinion...what another opinion nothing false there... many schools have become more sport. granted opinion and perhaps not a valid point at all as to if it's street worthy.

however having some exposure to judo over the years gives me all the experience i need to give an basic generalized OPINION!

This isn't what we have been arguing. We are arguing the fact your giving advise about something you don't know about.

but I do know something about it... infact I know alot of somethings about it. The list of somethings just happen to be EXTREMELY limited.