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  1. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 9:44pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude, stfu...
    Seriously, you're a fucking retard.
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 9:48pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Better Question would you call Wrestling a "soft" art?
    No, no you wouldn't.

    Get over the name of Judo "gentle way" Kano wanted to distinguish it from JuJutsu "gentle art".

    You see its just a freaking name.
    Last edited by goodlun; 10/30/2012 10:00pm at .
  3. r12477 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 9:51pm


     Style: Judo, Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon View Post
    Greetings I know you just joined in, but I can tell by your post your not familiar with the term "hard style" and "soft style" I've got some good information coming in now with a few of these posts. One thing that has not been mentioned, is if what I've been told a soft style is, is wrong then what is the definition and resource of what a soft style is.
    I believe that you would do better than to assume ignorance on the part of others on this board.

    In any event, this post reads more as historical revisionism on your part than anything else. As others have pointed out, your original contention - despite not being an active or experienced judoka - was that Judo was "soft" and therefore less "street worthy" than "jiu jitsu" (sic). The meaning of this assertion is clear - irrespective of any qualification that you are now seeking to make with respect to your definition of "soft" - in that you believe, absent any meaningful measure of (Judo) experience, Judo to be less appropriate for self-defence than JJJ.

    This is a position that has been challenged and clearly refuted by others of the board.
  4. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 10:03pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Better Question would you call Wrestling a "soft" art?
    No, no you wouldn't.

    Get over the fact that Judo "gentle way" Kano wanted to distinguish it from JuJutsu "gentle art".
    that depends on the type of wrestling since it's a broad term, but anything where your unbalancing the guy to use there moment or uprooting yes I would call those soft techniques, so even wrestling I believe is classified as a soft art. I mean look at firemens carry. sure you could just muscle the whole thing but if you do it right there body weight gets him up on to your shoulders.

    but I'm going to get more of the comments like before due to the thread topic.

    I didn't classify it as a soft art, I'm going off of what it's been classified as by others. I can't change my original post either or the title of this thread. it's there and it's still a curiosity.

    but thank you goodlun for the responses and these last two, which are in direct regards to my question.

    I have no clue what kuzushi is. I'm curious though do you not unbalance for your throws, flips or take downs? or do you muscle through them all? in Judo, not BJJ.

    I'm not gonna argue on the classification, but I am curious from a practioners perspective why the classification is wrong.

    the post I responded to had to do with chipped teeth and c.flower ears. but you can get those from soft styles.

    for example Tai Chi Chuan (4 years of training with Shaolin-Do with, yang and chen style tai chi among others)

    it's a soft art, not from the forms like tai chi 24 peking style but from the applications. When done correctly, utilizing what is known as uprooting my Master who is nearly twice my age can toss me like a rag doll. When he fully uproots me full speed, I crunch into the wall. and let me tell you it hurts and I hit hard. Now I'm a big guy 5'10" 250lbs, I easily out weight him but he does this with out any effort all using my moment and build against me. that's why it's a soft art, in the case of tai chi.

    I'm trying to understand why judo is hard style, i mean is there striking? kicking and punching? or do they muscle the movements? I know you mentioned kuzushi but as I don't know what this is, is there anyway to explain it or research it?
  5. NeilG is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 10:06pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Explain how Judo is not a soft art?...because it is.

    I feel like I'm losing IQ points just posting in this thread but...

    Soft vs hard depends on who is talking but among most old TMA guys we really mean internal vs external arts. The internal guys are mostly doing Chinese stuff, most of the Japanese ones are considered external. It's referring to how movement is initiated/power generated. I haven't trained in any of that stuff but have heard a lot of stories over the years. To me it is all grey area, senior people are using subtle things no matter what they learned initially.
  6. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 10:10pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    I feel like I'm losing IQ points just posting in this thread but...

    Soft vs hard depends on who is talking but among most old TMA guys we really mean internal vs external arts. The internal guys are mostly doing Chinese stuff, most of the Japanese ones are considered external. It's referring to how movement is initiated/power generated. I haven't trained in any of that stuff but have heard a lot of stories over the years. To me it is all grey area, senior people are using subtle things no matter what they learned initially.
    makes sense, in that light. sorry, thread was renamed with a post I did out of anger at a poster who told me judo is not a soft style. I'm going off the definition of hard and soft that I've heard from instructors, fellow martial artists and on the web., please see a few posts up for more details if interested.

    but all I meant was judo is a soft art as in throws and unbalancing vs a hard art as in striking, ie punches and kicks.
  7. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 10:13pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are a lot of people on this board far better qualified to describe kuzushi than me. However it is the art of breaking balance. Now this is where we get into the tricky part of this. Breaking balance in it self is not "soft". "Soft" has to do with using your opponents force.
    You can through hard means IE using your direct force to unbalance an opponent so that your throw will work.
    IE Pulling them really hard so all of their weight is on the foot your going to sweep.
    As you can see in this example this is not a soft technique your using direct force to put them where you want then your using direct force again to knock their support from out from underneath them.
    Their is a lot of direct force in Judo. Thus your imposing your will on your opponents not using their will and thus its not soft.
    Most Judo techniques have you stepping into your opponent to create a lever once again a more of a direct action.
  8. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 10:17pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by r12477 View Post
    I believe that you would do better than to assume ignorance on the part of others on this board.

    In any event, this post reads more as historical revisionism on your part than anything else. As others have pointed out, your original contention - despite not being an active or experienced judoka - was that Judo was "soft" and therefore less "street worthy" than "jiu jitsu" (sic). The meaning of this assertion is clear - irrespective of any qualification that you are now seeking to make with respect to your definition of "soft" - in that you believe, absent any meaningful measure of (Judo) experience, Judo to be less appropriate for self-defence than JJJ.

    This is a position that has been challenged and clearly refuted by others of the board.
    Agreed, and that was bad posting on my part. I type and post. I was not meaning to say judo being soft is the reason it's not street worthy. though I've had a few actually judoka on here correct me on my assumption that jujitsu would be more street worthy then judo. my assumption was essentially based on (well read previous posts for more details) that judo was sporty and jujitsu was supposed to be combat effective. they make strong points and I'm not arguing anymore on my original post on judo vs jujitsu.

    i am however getting some pretty good information on judo and the conversation has turned in the last few posts to what is soft style vs hard style.
  9. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 10:20pm

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     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hahahahaaa....
    Nope, you're still a dumbass.
  10. BlazeLeeDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 10:21pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    There are a lot of people on this board far better qualified to describe kuzushi than me. However it is the art of breaking balance. Now this is where we get into the tricky part of this. Breaking balance in it self is not "soft". "Soft" has to do with using your opponents force.
    You can through hard means IE using your direct force to unbalance an opponent so that your throw will work.
    IE Pulling them really hard so all of their weight is on the foot your going to sweep.
    As you can see in this example this is not a soft technique your using direct force to put them where you want then your using direct force again to knock their support from out from underneath them.
    Their is a lot of direct force in Judo. Thus your imposing your will on your opponents not using their will and thus its not soft.
    Most Judo techniques have you stepping into your opponent to create a lever once again a more of a direct action.
    hey now that is a strong and informative rebuke. I appreciate the more technical description. and as I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing from me I guess I'll drop it here. as any further argument on my part is gonna drag this out further. I at least get an idea of where some of the posters are coming from on the issue of judo and soft style.
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