Explain how Judo is not a soft art?...because it is.

[BlazeLeeDragon]

See, that is another problem with this thread. Thirteen pages of a thread that includes several references to TKD and Der hasn't posted one picture of a hot Korean chick yet. This thread will not be complete until he does.

that's an easy fix

http://disgrasian.com/wp-content/upl...owow_large.jpg

would be even easier if I knew how to make it an image :S

[It is Fake]

eh I think the focus is on me right now.

No, it is on your lack of knowledge and speaking like an authority.

you can see the continue attempts to goad me.

No, nothing has changed. This is you, trying to convce others that you did nothing wrong.

there was someone complaining about me referring to nunchaku as a two section staff, it wasn't his style but he persisted.

It is a weapon that exists in multiple arts. It is not a style.

no one called him on it.

No one should. You making a general error is an error. I am not a professor in math, but I know 1+1=2. Yes, that's the argument you just made. It is called research. There are many styles I have not practiced that I researched. If you did the same you wouldn't be spouting so much crap.

I then gave referenced and found the actually Chinese name according to Shaolin-Do erjie gun.

Again,this all started because you claim that your instructors have the only truth.

So we where talking about two different weapons him the Chang Xiao ban or something. but I was called and he wasn't, I should of just walked away but I came here for martial arts conversation.

You seem to forget YOU corrected people about one weapon, called it by an erroneous name and then tried to say "OMG we were talking about two different weapons.."

Now, why would anyone call him out on YOUR mistake?

[BlazeLeeDragon]

-fighting multiple opponents on one's feet isn't easy either.

true but we work with tactics of making the trip over each other. keep moving with them and do what you can to keep them in a straight line. always move to the guy closest to you.

I've studied FMA for a good while, and if I had to pick one go-to move against a knife, it'd be waki gatame, a technique in judo as well as jujutsu (and other stuff).
judo wakigatame:

nice :) I like the low stance, we have a move where we put the arm in a similar position I can see where that would be a favorite.

Judo isn't explicitly knife-oriented, but they do focus on controlling another person's body. Their knife arm is only one part of that body, as long as they don't use changing hands (which they might).

I'd also say that controlling the knife is about controlling the entire arm up to the shoulder and continuing to apply force to the rest of the body there. Judo teaches how to disbalance real people and put your weight into disbalancing techniques.

makes sense, all the against a knife street moves I've been taught have to do with controlling the knife arm, either locking it from the wrist and forcing the elbow straight like you mentioned above or have the arm locked close to the shoulder. when in doubt I've been told to keep my hands up a knife to the forearm is better then a knife to the body or head.

You should look up a program called STAB, that focuses on Greco Roman + Aliveness as applied to knife defense. Well thought out tactics to teach to someone that plans to do a minimum of knife training.

i'll check it out

That's a style, not a person. The person to look up would be Kenji Tomiki.

yeah kinda found that out the hard way when I searched for videos on youtube :S

[Permalost]

there was someone complaining about me referring to nunchaku as a two section staff, it wasn't his style but he persisted. no one called him on it.

there's a thing called a 2 sectional staff that's not really a nunchaku:

[BlazeLeeDragon]

there's a thing called a 2 sectional staff that's not really a nunchaku:

I know he brought that up. if you go back you'll see the conversation. I was trying to explain that my instructors call the weapon we use a two section staff and nunchaku (or nun chucks) He told me the pictured weapon above was a two section staff and we went back and fourth. Of course this brought up more shaolin-do bashing.

I understand now he was talking about the Chang Xiao Ban I was trying to tell him what we call our weapon and he was having none of it. Because only the Chang Xiao Ban can be called a two section staff.

I later, went to one of the Shaolin Do sights to verify what it was referred to as and found the name of the form and weapon in Chinese.

the form is er chie kuen, or should I say the techniques are called er chie kuen and the weapon is called erjie gun. Gun being a staff. I think the translation of erjie gun is something like two sticks. when I sent a link to wiki talking about erjie gun possibly influencing the nunchaku, I was ignored. The link to wiki was one of the first posts.

Either way it's one set of 15 or so spins (I'd have to count as i do them) we learn at blue belt level. now that I'm the level I"m at I practice on my own with the spins and we dont' do it as much in class. since we work on more advanced material now. so I don't remember hearing erjie gun or how to pronounce it, just the set of techniques.

So I wasn't trying to say Chang Xiao Ban is nunchaku, I was trying to say we call our erjie gun/nunchaku a two section staff. and he insisted it was wrong without knowing what erjie gun where, since I asked him for the chinese name for two sticks connect by cord or chain (though in the pm I think it was more liike what do the Chinese called nunchaku) and he said there is no such weapon or that only nunchaku are like that. I don't feel like digging up the post but if your interested you can find it.

anyway, that's what we where talking about and why I feel there is a double standard going on.

[goodlun]

I was looking for when I started the new thread not to whine as "It is fake" would have you believe. I want to continue to discuss my suggestion. However I've been met with trolling and trash talking, half the comments have no information nor add to the conversation, they are quotes with insults severing no purpose but for the poster to blow steam out there ass. This thread has gotten so ludicrous, I really don't care to post here again.

This is what YMAS area is, get over yourself. While I appreciate the fact you tried to take your **** posting out of someone elses newbie town thread you could have do it without being a whinny bitch.

I don't practice Judo I don't own books on it.

Yet your arrogant ass thinks he knows better than those who do practice Judo and do have Judo books and have studied Judo history.

1. As to the MMA, I've heard the term MMA used by many of the schools around here, as well as online and in articles that say MMA is basically a mix of martial arts. Any mix for the most part, each school I went to or called had something different to say about it. However most of the schools seemed to mix ground fighting with up fighting. They all seemed pretty well rounded.

MMA has been popularized as a combat sport rule set (one that has changed much over time). Its very roots are based in Judo. It actually at first had little to do with Mixing Martial Arts and more with a mixture of martial arts fighting each other to see who is top dog. The results BJJ(a derivative of Judo). Then people started training specifically for the rule set the classic combination is BJJ and Muay Thai.

That and the Judo they use in that MMA is a part of the style and not the whole.

Wrong quite a few Judokas has entered into MMA fights. Watch Rohnda Rousy highlights on youtube to see someone very successfully employing judo in MMA.

I've seen it spelled Jiu-jitsu, Jujitsu, and on this forum as Jujutsu. I'm referring to the Japanese version that started before Judo.

Jujutsu is the current correct romanisation.

I'll get into why I recommend jujitsu over judo

The answer to that is easy you don't know enough about either art especially Judo.

"lurk more, post less"

had you lurked more you may have actually learned a thing or two about Judo and why it is highly recommended in these parts.

All the judo I've seen, is aimed at getting the opponent on the ground to pin them or make them submit.

These are ways to win in Judo and are valid ways, they are also extremely valid ways to win a street fight.
Successfully pinning someone in a street altercation is a measured response that can be used to deal with your drunk buddy/coworker/neighbor/what ever.
Submission in judo is from either Arm Bar or Choke. Now we know you don't understand the Judo Arm bar but its not a pain compliant maneuver if you don't tap and tap quickly your arm will get broken. No one can argue the defectiveness of a choke.

The reason I think Jujitsu is more street worthy with what little I know about it, is because: Judo as far as I know is not about striking at all,

Go back and watch early MMA and see that you don't need striking but you do need grappling.

but about dropping your opponent and pining them, if I'm wrong I was more than willing to hear so from a Judoka (I think they are called).

You have heard from Judoka several we have corrected you already on multiple occasions. I even gave you the winning conditions of Judo. Choking and Submission(recall your submitting so you don't black out or end up with a broken arm) are part of the sport they are also a great way to finish any fight.

My friends that did Jujitsu use to brag about how their stuff is for killing, it's one of the arts of the samurai from what I've seen and everything I've seen on it has punching, kicking, limb breaking and disarming moves. I didn't see anything to suggest you pin or submit an opponent in jujitsu, but rather destroy them. THATS, why I thought it would be more street worthy. Also the only Jujitsu throws I've been shown are ones where you stand and flip them, mostly isolating there arm, neck or leg for a break.

Yeah the Jujitsu throws your talking about are not as effective at breaking things as you think nor are they that good at throwing people. Its fantasy moves by people who don't train with aliveness.

I'm also a big believer that you fight how you train.

Yes so are we hence why we keep talking about ALIVENESS if you don't train with it your not training how your going to fight. Everything a Judokah trains can be done at full force with full speed against someone that doesn't want it to happen. This is what makes it effective this is what JJJ is missing. There is a worlds of difference between being able to execute a technique in sparing against a resiting opponent and doing compliant drills.

If you train for tournaments your instincts will be for tournament rules.

Yes cause we are all mindless and rely purely on instinct. Wait a second here is a thought for you someone who fights in tournaments has to constantly vary the way they fight. Yep you have to quickly and constantly adjust your tactics based on your opponent. Something you don't have to do when you do complaint drilling. Tournament fighters are the most adaptable fighters there are. In fact its not uncommon now for a Judokah to participate under a verity of other grappling rulesets. You think we are so stupid as to not be able to adapt on the street?

I don't believe ground work would be best for him,

This is why your not qualified to give any advise on self defense to anyone at all.

I don't think rushing someone with a knife is a good idea

No one is telling anyone to rush someone with a knife.

nor is telling someone to do ground work who has confrontation issues.

You know what will help him with those issues? Thats right training. You think you can be an effective striker with confrontation issues? Training grappling will allow one to get over these even quicker do to the nature in which it is trained.

Hesitation in grappling is likely to get you killed. I say this because when grappling you hesitate and you are done.

You know jack **** about grappling if you have superior position you can sit around in it almost all day long. In fact it gives you a chance to recover while your opponent can't and gives you a chance to think. Hesitating while striking is FAR more dangerous.

I've also seen jujitsu guys disarm guys with weapons knifes and swords.

No you have seen Jujutsu guys pretend to disarm guys with weapons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ah_0gia4A0
If your not training with aliveness your not stopping the above attack.

I mentioned in this long ass post how the samurai would do jujitsu, I've seen them, unarmed, disarm a guy with a sword in documentaries.

I grantee you, you have never seen a samurai on any documentary. What you have seen is a poor reenactment.

but no one wants to hear my opinion now, they want to jump down my throat on every post...

Its because your opinion is based on a lack of knowledge. It would be like going into a car forum and telling them that a Yaris is a better race car than a Corvette. Because you have seen the Yaris and read something or another about the Corvette.

as to the hard and soft styles.

Your not qualified to really have this debate, however it doesn't matter when you say do one over the other because one is soft when both are soft by your definition your really putting yourself up shits creek.

Now I have guys on here with no resources (or at least not nameing them) and nothing to tell me if they know what they are talking about, which is contradicting what I know from my resources.

How about the fact that virtually every single one of them was a Judokah? You don't think the people who spend there time doing the art have a better understanding of it than you and your research?

[It is Fake]

anyway, that's what we where talking about and why I feel there is a double standard going on.

If I get the posts, it is going to get uglier. You have just twisted the story, in your favor, once again.

You don't think the people who spend there time doing the art have a better understanding of it than you and your research?

Stop appeasing him. It is not research when you only look at things that support your side of the argument.

He is browsing at best.

[Hollykate]

Heh This thread is hilarious!

I mean i have a chipped tooth and the beginning of a cauliflour ear and very likely to destroy my knees in the later part of my life..

but it's a soft art!

[BlazeLeeDragon]

Heh This thread is hilarious!

I mean i have a chipped tooth and the beginning of a cauliflour ear and very likely to destroy my knees in the later part of my life..

but it's a soft art!

Greetings I know you just joined in, but I can tell by your post your not familiar with the term "hard style" and "soft style" I've got some good information coming in now with a few of these posts. One thing that has not been mentioned, is if what I've been told a soft style is, is wrong then what is the definition and resource of what a soft style is.

all instructors I have talked to call it a soft art, my brother 2 years of BJJ calls it a soft art, well don't let me miss quote him soft art if done correctly is what I think he said. I dont' remember the magazine or book titles I first read them in or the name of the first instructor to explain it to me.

however I am not calling judo pansy, i'm not saying it's not rough or tough. I'm saying soft=indirect force and hard=direct force. or better yet hard=strikes, soft=uprooting/unbalancing

now as much as some hate online definitions here are a few sights. If you have resources or websites etc that contradict this I'd be interested in reading them.

-"The goal of the soft technique is turning the attacker’s force to his or her disadvantage, with the defender exerting minimal force."

-"The soft technique usually is applied when the attacker is off-balance, thus the defender achieves the "maximum efficiency" ideal posited by Kano Jigoro (1860–1938), the founder of judo"

another site
-"JUDO: (Japanese-Guiding Force-Soft art). Not nearly as passive as Aikido this deals a lot more with getting in close to the foe and grappling. Judo means 'the way of flexibility'. Created toward the end of the 19th century. Judoka is one who practices Judo."

http://changingminds.org/explanation...soft_power.htm
this has a great in depth explanation.


another
Judo (柔道 jūdō?, meaning "gentle way")

I'm not trying to apply the normal meaning of soft. but everything I've been told fits these definition for soft art. If you have something else I see your a Judoka, please share so I can read it and understand why everyone is getting so pist about this.

[goodlun]

I'm saying soft=indirect force and hard=direct force. or better yet hard=strikes, soft=uprooting/unbalancing

What you don't seem to get is this is very hard conversation to have with out you understanding the way kuzushi and how it is applied to the wide variety of Judo throws, then we get into the ground work.