Interesting Gun Loophole

**BKR** · Posted On: 11/02/2012 3:44pm

Originally Posted by BlazeLeeDragon

Are you sure we are talking about the same gun? Most black powder guns, at the very least the one in question 44 caliber black powder revolver - a replica of the 1860 Colt Army. Does not allow for a quick swap of the cylinder. If I am mistaken could you please sight your source, I'd be interested in reading it.

I think I read they did eventually make guns like this. but I don't think the one in question can.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Army_Model_1860
"Loading is a somewhat lengthy process, with each of the six chambers drilled into the revolving cylinder being loaded from the front, or "muzzle" end. A measured amount of black powder is poured into a chamber..."

Not sure, I've shot a lot of BP percussion revolvers, including the one you note, but it's been a long time. Some of them could swap out fairly easily.

Multiple revolvers was better by far.

**BKR** · Posted On: 11/02/2012 3:46pm

Originally Posted by Devil

Yes, you can. .44 cap and ball revolvers have a .452 bore. Also, you have to use lead bullets with the conversions.

Cool, I forgot about bore sizes. Been 30+ years since I was shooting them.

**MrBadGuy** · Posted On: 11/06/2012 9:06pm

Originally Posted by Devil

Nevertheless, I thought the legal aspects were interesting. There was a discussion in another thread recently about making plastic guns on a $10,000 printer. For those of you rebels who were fascinated by that, this is probably a safer and more cost-effective way for you to stick it to the man. Enjoy!

Be careful. By converting it from an antique/replica to a firearm (most states define antiques as black powder, centerfire/rimfire is a firearm) means that if it was illegal for you to own a firearm (which you didn't before, because it was an antique), you're now committing a crime by owning the firearm. If you're in a state that requires registration of firearms, a license to own, or otherwise limits the amount of firearms you may own, you may be committing Class A misdemeanors or felonies.

I'm just sayin', be careful mofos. Check local laws before you start monkeying around.

I don't know if this has been covered (probably has, I think half of bullshido is lawyers), but I thought I'd throw it in anyway. Modding guns is dangerous business. Accidentally turning a pistol into a NFA regulated short barreled firearm is easier than you'd think!

**Devil** · Posted On: 11/06/2012 10:53pm

Originally Posted by MrBadGuy

Be careful. By converting it from an antique/replica to a firearm (most states define antiques as black powder, centerfire/rimfire is a firearm) means that if it was illegal for you to own a firearm (which you didn't before, because it was an antique), you're now committing a crime by owning the firearm. If you're in a state that requires registration of firearms, a license to own, or otherwise limits the amount of firearms you may own, you may be committing Class A misdemeanors or felonies.

I'm sure there are a couple fucked up yankee states and maybe Kalifornia that could give you some **** if there's some handgun registration process. But it's a non-issue in the vast majority of the country.

You're not turning a legal gun into an illegal gun. It's not like hacking a foot of barrel off an AR. You're turning a legal gun into another legal gun. You're not circumventing the law. It just so happens that there isn't any legislation that governs either of these purchases.

**goodlun** · Posted On: 11/07/2012 1:58am

Originally Posted by Devil

I'm sure there are a couple fucked up yankee states and maybe Kalifornia that could give you some **** if there's some handgun registration process. But it's a non-issue in the vast majority of the country.

You're not turning a legal gun into an illegal gun. It's not like hacking a foot of barrel off an AR. You're turning a legal gun into another legal gun. You're not circumventing the law. It just so happens that there isn't any legislation that governs either of these purchases.

I am sure we all know that I am not a lawyer but the problem that may arise is under the firearm manufacturing rules. I am having a hard time finding the specific ones on the ATF page but things can get tricky when you modify a firearm. However on the other side of it I do think that there was some leeway for making guns out kits. Not saying your wrong, cause I really don't know but some further investigation may not be a bad idea.

**Mr. Machette** · Posted On: 11/07/2012 2:12am

Originally Posted by goodlun

I am sure we all know that I am not a lawyer but the problem that may arise is under the firearm manufacturing rules. I am having a hard time finding the specific ones on the ATF page but things can get tricky when you modify a firearm. However on the other side of it I do think that there was some leeway for making guns out kits. Not saying your wrong, cause I really don't know but some further investigation may not be a bad idea.

The action is stil archaic. Obsolescent weapons are not the ones the ATF is worried about.

The regulatinos that are in place tend to revolve around purely asthetic features. Sometimes they even remove actual safety features like heat shields. They seldom have anything to do with the actual power of a given cartridge or anything that affects the leathality of a weapon.

Thus is the stupidity of gun control in general. "A semi-automatic rifle in the relatively under-powered .223 with a monte carlo stock is a-ok but one with a muzle break and a different shaped grip is contraband (even though they do the same thing)."

**Devil** · Posted On: 11/07/2012 9:04am

Originally Posted by goodlun

I am sure we all know that I am not a lawyer but the problem that may arise is under the firearm manufacturing rules. I am having a hard time finding the specific ones on the ATF page but things can get tricky when you modify a firearm. However on the other side of it I do think that there was some leeway for making guns out kits. Not saying your wrong, cause I really don't know but some further investigation may not be a bad idea.

I'm familiar with the regulations you're referring to. They generally apply to manufacture for sale. There is very little restriction on modifying your own weapon if you're not turning it into a Class III item and if you won't be selling it.

**MrBadGuy** · Posted On: 11/07/2012 10:11am

Originally Posted by Devil

I'm sure there are a couple fucked up yankee states and maybe Kalifornia that could give you some **** if there's some handgun registration process. But it's a non-issue in the vast majority of the country.

True, but considering people in those states may be reading your post, I thought it might be worth a mention. Also I don't think it's ever a bad idea to tell people to check their local laws before they drop 500$.

Plus some states have laws against possession of firearms (i.e., in Texas you can't possess a firearm until 5 years after a felony conviction). So if you bought this and then modified it, you'd go from owning an antique to a firearm, which could get someone in trouble.

Again, my assertion is simply check the laws first, and don't get yourself in trouble. I'm about as pro gun as it gets, so don't confuse my message. I want to keep my fellow gun-nuts out of jail so we can blast away the hippies together.

You're not turning a legal gun into an illegal gun. It's not like hacking a foot of barrel off an AR. You're turning a legal gun into another legal gun. You're not circumventing the law. It just so happens that there isn't any legislation that governs either of these purchases.

I think if you re-read what I wrote, it was about how easy it is to accidentally run afoul of arbitrary gun laws (i.e., accidentally turning a pistol into a short barreled firearm by adding a second grip), as opposed to what you're doing. I was anecdotally supporting my assertion that people should check their local laws.

**Devil** · Posted On: 11/07/2012 10:15am

Originally Posted by MrBadGuy

True, but considering people in those states may be reading your post, I thought it might be worth a mention. Also I don't think it's ever a bad idea to tell people to check their local laws before they drop 500$.

I think if you re-read what I wrote, it was about how easy it is to accidentally run afoul of arbitrary gun laws (i.e., accidentally turning a pistol into a short barreled firearm by adding a second grip), as opposed to what you're doing. I was anecdotally supporting my assertion that people should check their local laws.

Sure. Everyone should know the local laws. No argument there.