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  1. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Umpa Lumpas ate chocolate all day and had 0% unemployment.
    And Wonka wore bow ties like Nye.

    The plot thickens!
  2. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Wrong its Americans we need to inspire to do Science.
    http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-15/u...ation?_s=PM:US
    TV is the way to get them interested.
    Ugh, you will never convince me cable news can solve ANY of the world's problems, being the source of many.

    I pointed out NASA created a television network called TLC to teach science and learning. Now it's known as the home of Jon and Kate Plus 8 and Honey Boo Boo.

    TV failed at science with the exception of certain, rare shows like Nye, Wizard, and Nova.

    The Internet is a far better resource for science education than TV is, currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Yeah you know cause making Sun Dials, Test Screen Patterns, and using a Sun Dial as a compass all stuff I have done in the Boy Scouts.
    Red herring. No, you didn't make Martian instrumentation in the Boy Scouts. Worse, you're using Scouting as an appeal to authority...which is laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Yes some serious science went into getting them to the surface of Mars, that science wasn't done by Nye.
    Says you, yet he's been on the design teams for Spirit, Opportunity, AND Curiosity. And no Boy Scouts or Scout Masters were involved from what I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I do believe Mr. Wizard probably was a starting point for a few of them especially the older ones. Was he whole inspiration of course not. There are a lot of components that go into building a fire.
    You backpedaled from "most of the scientists and engineers" to "a few". Thanks for attempting some accuracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Yet Mr. Wizard actually had a degree in Science.
    You do realize Nye's engineering degree is a B.S. right?

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    More importantly Mr. Wizard inspired many people
    So have a lot of scientists, as we had already agreed..you are backpedaling so far you're stepping on ground already covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Pretty much the only reason why he did the sun dial work instead of an intern. To take advantage of some of that star power.
    You realize entire design teams were involved in making those right, and Bill is just the one "celebrity" scientist involved? Not that it takes anything away from his contributions....he's brilliant in ways that go beyond chemistry experiments and rocket hobbyists.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    All this said don't get me wrong I respect Nye as an Engineer, as a science educator and as someone who continues to champion science sadly something that is needed.
    Distinguishing someone as brilliant as Nye as either scientist or engineer is a false dichotomy, a dualistic fallacy that underlies every argument you have made since the thread began.

    Bill Nye is a Scientist AND and Engineer. He's also a mean Stand Up Comedian.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Neil Degrasse Tyson deserves an honorable mention for getting into the spot light from time to time.
    He deserves more than an honorable mention, but he is also no Bill Nye.

    His big claim to fame was being voted the Sexiest Astrophysicist Alive in 2000.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/19/2012 3:09pm at .
  3. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 3:34pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Ugh, you will never convince me cable news can solve ANY of the world's problems, being the source of many.
    Not trying to convince you cable news will solve anything. Entertaining Science education on the other hand very well may.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I pointed out NASA created a television network called TLC to teach science and learning. Now it's known as the home of Jon and Kate Plus 8 and Honey Boo Boo.
    Yes and it was awesome until it was privatized. Now it is garbage.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    TV failed at science with the exception of certain, rare shows like Nye, Wizard, and Nova.
    I will give you this and raise you TV seems to fail at providing information. Look at the derogation of TV News, History Channel, Science Channel, and the History Channel. However as you have stated we have had successes. We need more of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    The Internet is a far better resource for science education than TV is, currently.
    This is true, anything interactive be it Internet or a video game is going to be better. However that being said the narrow selection of TV Channels that target children. Cartoon Network, Disney, Nickelodeon should have figure out the formula to successful entertaining science educational programing.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Red herring. No, you didn't make Martian instrumentation in the Boy Scouts. Worse, you're using Scouting as an appeal to authority...which is laughable.
    You seem to be hung up on this Mars thing. You think the instruments are special because of that? A sun dial works the same on Mars as it does anywhere in the solar system. Tor that matter any Single Star system.
    As far as an appeal to authority more like the opposite as I was pointing out how unimpressive it is since its the same thing that people with out a specialized education have been doing for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Says you, yet he's been on the design teams for Spirit, Opportunity, AND Curiosity. And no Boy Scouts or Scout Masters were involved from what I know.
    I would be willing to bet a larger than average distribution of Eagle Scouts work at NASA.
    Also not my point, the instrumentation is basic, its something the Ancient Greeks and possibly earlier made. The fact that its on Mars doesn't make the instrument any more special.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You backpedaled from "most of the scientists and engineers" to "a few". Thanks for attempting some accuracy.
    What fair is fair without some sort of survey I would be hard pressed to prove it

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    So have a lot of scientists, as we had already agreed..you are backpedaling so far you're stepping on ground already covered.
    This brings up an interesting question - Who has inspired more people someone like Hawking or the TV Science Educators like Nye and Herbert. It would make for an interesting survey if conducted properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You realize entire design teams were involved in making those right, and Bill is just the one "celebrity" scientist involved?
    Yes, Curiosity was built with many engineers working on it.
    How many household named "celebrity" scientist can you name that worked on it? (not a challenge I am curious)

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Distinguishing someone as brilliant as Nye as either scientist or engineer is a false dichotomy, a dualistic fallacy that underlies every argument you have made since the thread began.
    Engineers and Scientist play two very different roles. Engineers use science, scientist expands our understanding of Science. I don't actually put Mr. Wizard into either of these categories as he was primarily a Science Educator.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    He deserves more than an honorable mention, but he is also no Bill Nye.
    Right cause he is an Actual Scientist that is working to expand our understanding of the Astros.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 3:45pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    Eh?

    Lol, that was exactly my thought as well.
  5. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 4:07pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    You seem to be hung up on this Mars thing. You think the instruments are special because of that? A sun dial works the same on Mars as it does anywhere in the solar system.
    You didn't watch any of the videos I linked. If you did you'd know why Earth and Mars are slightly different.

    Now you should watch Bill explain what actually went down.



    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    The fact that its on Mars doesn't make the instrument any more special.
    Hard to believe you'd put that in a post. I thought you were smarter.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    This brings up an interesting question - Who has inspired more people someone like Hawking or the TV Science Educators like Nye and Herbert. It would make for an interesting survey if conducted properly.
    Who cares. Science has been inspired by fruit, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Engineers and Scientist play two very different roles. Engineers use science, scientist expands our understanding of Science. I don't actually put Mr. Wizard into either of these categories as he was primarily a Science Educator.
    Exactly, but you use these terms are if one person can't be both.

    Was Da Vinci a scientist or engineer? Maybe now you finally see my point.
  6. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 4:30pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You didn't watch any of the videos I linked. If you did you'd know why Earth and Mars are slightly different.
    Sigh I did once again its a sun dial.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Now you should watch Bill explain what actually went down.
    Yep it got added cause they thought it would be cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Hard to believe you'd put that in a post. I thought you were smarter.
    Curiosity also has Wheels that are on MARS you don't hear anyone bragging about that.

    http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/images/...y---hpfeat.jpg
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Learn-About-Me--Curiosity---hpfeat.jpg 
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    Hey look at the picture from JPL and everything pointed out, you see the sun dial on its ass yep they didn't think it was cool enough to point out either.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Who cares. Science has been inspired by fruit, too.
    Orders of magnitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Exactly, but you use these terms are if one person can't be both.
    People can be all three
    What scientific discoveries can you contribute to Nye?
    Nye like Mr. Wizards realm in science has been one as an educator. I contend that the method used by Wizard was a better method for science education.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Was Da Vinci a scientist or engineer? Maybe now you finally see my point.
    To be honest I don't know enough about Da Vinci to say if he was an Engineer or Both.
  7. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 4:40pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    More to the point he took something that was already going onto the robot and said hey lets make it a sundial. They mostly use it as a sun dial by overlaying virtual images on it. He didn't even write the software to make it into a usable sundial.
  8. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 4:50pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Curiosity also has Wheels that are on MARS you don't hear anyone bragging about that.
    More red herrings.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Orders of magnitude.
    Really? There are reasons why apples and oranges are synonymous with Newtonian physics. Exactly what breakthrough or scientific work is Herbert famous for again? Oh right..your theme....he was on TV.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    What scientific discoveries can you contribute to Nye?
    You keep missing the point: Nye is on the design team for ALL of the Martian rovers and has been for quite some time. His ideas for the sun dial were what got him onto the design team, it's been years now he's been contributing.

    So whereas Mr. Wizard had an inspirational TV show geared towards hobbyists, Bill Nye is actively exploring helping us explore outer fucking space. Outer fucking space.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/19/2012 4:58pm at .
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 4:53pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    More to the point he took something that was already going onto the robot and said hey lets make it a sundial. They mostly use it as a sun dial by overlaying virtual images on it. He didn't even write the software to make it into a usable sundial.
    Did you miss the amazing parts about his personal love and history with sundials, about how his father was the longest-captured POW in World War II?

    And how his obsession with sundials, from his father's POW experience, led to the inclusion of these devices on the mission?

    Yep. There was no plan for sundials before Nye. It was his spark of brilliance.

    Bill Nye, The Science Guy, would like to discuss with us our place in space. Not with black holes, or multiverses, but here on Earth, where his dad was born. In World War II, Bill Nye’s dad was building an airstrip on Wake Island, in the middle of the Pacific, when it was bombed. He was captured on Chrismas Eve 1941, and was a prisoner of war for 44 months, the longest of any American.

    But in camp, he had a special skill. He could tell time by sticking a shovel in the sand, creating a sundial to replace the watches that were confiscated. After returning, he became obsessed with sundials. He created the “sand-dial”, so you don’t have to bring your watch to the beach. He also recived a lifetime membership in the World Sundial Association.

    Growing up with his father, Bill Nye himself developed S.O.D., “Sundial obsessive disorder.”


    Later, he was invited to NASA to give a talk, and noticed something about the Mars Rovers (yet to be launched): There was a piece on each Rover that was different colored, to calibrate the cameras, with sample colors and a palette of grays of different intensities or, as Bill Nye puts it, “grayths.” They were round, and they needed a post to cast a shadow. Nye, of course, immediately thought, “these need to be sundials!” So today, there are two sundials on Mars.

    You can build your own sundial very easily, with a stick and a ping-pong ball. With them, you too can see an analema, the path the sun makes in the sky as the year progressed. ”Very few of us have heard the word analema yet, but we all depend on it.” When the next Mars Rover lands, he wants people all over the world to build these simple sundials, and through them get a better sense of our place in the Universe. “If you take the time this summer, you can, dare I say it, change the world!”
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/19/2012 4:57pm at .
  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 5:11pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    More red herrings. Boy you are really off topic from Bill Nye vs Wizard now.
    Nope, its an analogy, to show that just because its on mars doesn't make it extra special.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Really? There are reasons why apples and oranges are synonymous with Newtonian physics. Exactly what breakthrough or scientific work is Herbert famous for again? Oh right..your theme....he was on TV.
    Yep, being on TV especially when he was, was a big deal. Not only was he on TV but he was for a good number of years you know when they didn't have 600 channels.
    This role of being a science educator to a mass market of people is a huge thing. Fine he didn't discover anything himself. However he brought science to the masses.
    50,000 Mr. Wizard science clubs by 1965.

    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    So whereas Mr. Wizard had an inspirational TV show geared towards hobbyists, Bill Nye is actively exploring helping us explore outer fucking space. Outer fucking space.
    Inspirational TV show geared towards Hobbyists > net gain than one man saying hey look a stick lets use it as a sun dial. Fine he may have worked to design other parts too but had he not been there to do it some other talented ME would have.

    Its the hobbyists that are missing today. I contend if we had a large Hobbyists base again we wouldn't be number 17 on science education. We wouldn't have so many people who are clueless about science.
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