And God Said "let there be arguments".

**goodlun** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 1:33pm

So let me get this all straight.
We admit that its not "impossible" but just "improvable" well no ****.
As I said once earlier the fact that it is improvable is why we have the story at all.
No one is going to record and recount as part of there mythology the guy who does the everyday common event.

**Bruiser** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 1:46pm

Originally Posted by goodlun

So let me get this all straight.
We admit that its not "impossible" but just "improvable" well no ****.
As I said once earlier the fact that it is improvable is why we have the story at all.
No one is going to record and recount as part of there mythology the guy who does the everyday common event.

Yeah it'd be pretty lame to have a history comprised of "And at sunrise Bob awoke and showered and shaved before going to the field to tend to the sheep where he stayed all day until the evening"

No one would read it.

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 2:03pm

Originally Posted by Bruiser

Yeah it'd be pretty lame to have a history comprised of "And at sunrise Bob awoke and showered and shaved before going to the field to tend to the sheep where he stayed all day until the evening"

No one would read it.

We have that now it's called twitter.

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 2:13pm

Originally Posted by Bruiser

Yeah it'd be pretty lame to have a history comprised of "And at sunrise Bob awoke and showered and shaved before going to the field to tend to the sheep where he stayed all day until the evening"

No one would read it.

We have that now it's called twitter.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 2:14pm

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

We have that now it's called twitter.

This may be the funniest thing you've ever said.

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 2:19pm

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

So much material to choose from, so I chose something easy, with pretty pictures with bright colors for Bnet. We need to start small, with how concussion works.

And the nice lady with the warm voice should help.

For my next trick I'll try to calculate the G force imparted to a helmeted person from 3,600 N. I can tell without even doing the calculation that it's quite a bit, because of how the proportions work with Newton's laws.

Don't make me do that Bnet...because my OCD ass will do it if you persist. This is when to let go...and that goes for both of us.

Don't get your cotton tail in a bunch, I'll give it up.

**goodlun** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 3:03pm

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

Don't get your cotton tail in a bunch, I'll give it up.

and that was the smartest thing you have said in this thread.

**Styygens** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 3:03pm

Well, holy crap. I tried googling some key words "bronze helmet sling bullet" and discovered an entire website of ancient sling devotees: www.slinging.org. And wouldn't you know it, they've also got a thread devoted to the DvG duel. Short version: Even they can't seem to agree on whether or not Goliath was killed or stunned by the sling bullet. http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1208522774/0

BTW, it appears the Balearic sling champion from the video Wabbit posted is a member and posts there. Not surprisingly, it seems he needed more than one shot to hit the sensor.

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 3:10pm

Ok I'm an asshole....I had already written this up. It's Friday and I was feeling intellectually unstimulated during a coffee break.

Now I freely admit any part of this could be wrong or off...most people here know how terrible my math can be...please remember to show your own work if you want to try to pick this apart.

+++

Neglecting air friction (the reason sling stones are so smooth), and of course assuming 2 dimensions (no vector calculus on Bullshido, I refuse to be that big a snot-nose).

F = m*a = 3,600 N = (3,600 kg*m/s^2)

a = 3,600 N / m

Since we don't know the actual weight of the bullets, let's assume m = 1.3 kg (approx 3 lb) bullet, making a = 2,780 m/s^2, about 282 Gs on the stone. That seems like a lot, but keep in mind this is because the stone has a relatively low mass (1.3) compared to the impact force measured (3,600 newtons). Making the stone heavier would decrease the amount of acceleration required to achieve a 3.6 kN strike (heavier rock = more force).

Slings can't really use heavier rocks/bullet effectively due to lost range...their greater mass means the Earth's natural acceleration pulls their trajectory downward sooner than for the lighter stones (heavier bullets fall straight down to earth sooner). Note I didn't say faster...please don't try to conflate the gravitational constant of Earth's acceleration with multivariate ballistics calculus.

To overcome this problem, the ancients built siege weaponry capable of hurling larger stones.

But as far as the receiving helmet/skull/brain knows:

3,600 N / 5kg (Unhelmeted head) = rapid brain acceleration of 73 Gs (3600N = 5kg*a, a = 720 m/s^2)

If you factor in a liberal ~50% absorption rate (based on NFL video and 21st century helmet tech) you come to about 360 to 400 m/s^2 = ~40 G of brain acceleration and the subsequent traumatic oscillation which happens to be about the same as in the NFL video, reported to result in TBIs such as concussions, CTE, subdermal hematoma, stroke, and even death.

And that's with helmets.

Footnote: Keep in mind that these are ideal calculations in a vacuum, air resistance will ultimately lower the actual velocity achieved...the 3,600 Newtons is detected on the target and not on the stone, so I think it's safe to take air friction out of the equations entirely.

+++

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/26/2012 3:14pm

Originally Posted by goodlun

So let me get this all straight.
We admit that its not "impossible" but just "improvable" well no ****.

No.

As I said once earlier the fact that it is improvable is why we have the story at all.

Wrong again.

No one is going to record and recount as part of there mythology the guy who does the everyday common event.

Says the guy who said "Look a letter from a legionnaire needing socks." The mundane is written about and recorded all of the time. Do you need the articles?