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  1. TEA is online now
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    Charlie Don't Surf

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2012 8:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Youth v.s. Experience

    Not the way it's usually discussed.

    I'm looking at my registration packet for the 47th Dallas Invitational Judo Championship and I'm trying to decide which division to register for. It looks like the Masters division is divided by age but not experience level, whereas the Seniors have an under brown belt Novice division. So, do I want to register for the 40 - 49 year old Masters division and fight guys my age but who have a lot more experience (i.e. I'm only a yellow belt in Judo) or do I want to fight guys a lot younger than me who are relatively the same experience level?

    I'm thinking I'd be better off fighting a 20 year old yellow or green belt than a 49 year old black belt. I'll ask my instructor what he thinks, but I was interested on what others here might opt for.
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  2. Smackjack is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2012 8:39pm


     Style: Tkd,mauythai,bjj,boxing

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    **** no, that type of **** tournament is bullshit, I've fought 40 year olds at age 13-15 because of this and they kicked my ass, some even have done MA since I've been born. Unless you want to be bull rushed, don't sign up. It wasn't till later I realized this.

    point: fight at your rank not your age. There is always going to be a young "ip man" in the group.
  3. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/10/2012 10:53pm


     Style: Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TEA View Post
    Not the way it's usually discussed.

    I'm looking at my registration packet for the 47th Dallas Invitational Judo Championship and I'm trying to decide which division to register for. It looks like the Masters division is divided by age but not experience level, whereas the Seniors have an under brown belt Novice division. So, do I want to register for the 40 - 49 year old Masters division and fight guys my age but who have a lot more experience (i.e. I'm only a yellow belt in Judo) or do I want to fight guys a lot younger than me who are relatively the same experience level?

    I'm thinking I'd be better off fighting a 20 year old yellow or green belt than a 49 year old black belt. I'll ask my instructor what he thinks, but I was interested on what others here might opt for.
    Stay away from those old dogs. They will destroy you, you will learn nothing.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  4. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2012 1:03am

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     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by crappler View Post
    Stay away from those old dogs. They will destroy you, you will learn nothing.
    I won't even pretend to know how the Judo tournament works, but based on the (numerous) krotty tournaments I've fought in and judged, I would go with the rank. The older guys always seemed to know the ins and outs of scoring and leaving the younger guys scratching their heads.

    The best part is I'm one of the old guys now LOL.

  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/11/2012 2:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Go with rank, that way when you lose you can blame it on being old
  6. JesusChrist is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2012 2:17am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rank all the way. You don't want to deal with the old man strength and experience when you can just deal with younger guys and probably out muscle them.
  7. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2012 3:42am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a smalish guy, so I prefer to go by weight. If I go into kyu I face the possibility of dealing with some guy who is literally twice my size (it's happened) and who has no fucking finesse. This means a 5 minute slog wile I get awkwardly mashed against the mats with a high chance of injury.

    At least in the weights, if some guy is going to outclass me, it's going to be on skill which means a nice clean ippon to end the match - leaving me sufficiently intact to fight again some day.

    Also with the masters your opponents could be very varied. Outside of a few serious international events, you're going to get everyone from that black-belt who competes every month minimum, and has just had his birthday, to the old guy who's just there to have some fun and show he can still do stuff, to the guy who started late and is a bit confused by the whole thing.
  8. TEA is online now
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    Charlie Don't Surf

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2012 5:37am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks guys. I was thinking that experience level would be more of a factor than age. Goodlun, is the inverse of your point that if I win all of the younger guys will attribute it to "old man strength." ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Smackjack View Post
    **** no, that type of **** tournament is bullshit, I've fought 40 year olds at age 13-15 because of this and they kicked my ass, some even have done MA since I've been born. Unless you want to be bull rushed, don't sign up. It wasn't till later I realized this.

    point: fight at your rank not your age. There is always going to be a young "ip man" in the group.
    I think you misunderstand Judo tournaments in general as well as the tournament in the OP in specific. This is not a small tournament put on by some local clubs that make up their own rules and divisions. This is a national level tournament sanctioned by USA Judo and as such conforms with IJF contest rules. There will not be kids fighting with grown ups. They have a Juniors division for anyone "born 1993 and later." All divisions are further divided into weight classes.

    The choice I have is to register for male Senior Novice (over 20 years of age and under brown belt) or male Masters in the 40 - 49 year old bracket (i.e. open to anyone in that age bracket regardless of rank). I think Crappler makes a good point with regards to what I won't get out of this tournament if I compete against a bunch of salty dogs who can beat my ass without breaking a sweat.

    FWIW, the only other Judo tournament I've competed in had a Masters Novice division, so I was able to fight against of old newbies like myself. However, because the number of competitors for that division was fairly small, they had to match us up into three weight classes roughly evenly divided by numbers, which resulted in my being the smallest guy in my bracket. I think that another benefit to competing in the Seniors Novice rather than the Masters division is that I will be more evenly matched in weight as well as experience, although I am currently at the low end of the 81 kg weight bracket (i.e. my current weight is 165lbs/74.8kilos and the next lower weight class is 73kilos/160.9lbs). This begs the question, since weigh ins are the night before the tournament, should I try and cut five pounds to fight in a lighter weight class?
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  9. fakejudoka is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2012 8:09am


     Style: Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm going to slightly go against the grain here. I am 37, weigh 215lbs and currently a green belt. I have the same concerns when I consider playing in a tournament. I have recently been leaning towards playing Masters because the guys are pretty much going to be in the same shape as me and will most likely try to avoid getting hurt as much as me. The truth is, Masters can't beat up their bodies like the young guys can. In my club there is a college kid, 22 yrs old I think. He weighs in at 210lbs and after we do randori sometimes it just hurts.

    If you fight novice men you will play people of similar experience but most likely a lot younger. Young guys tend to kill or be killed in tournaments. Another thing to think about is your current weight is 160 and judging from the tournament we just had that is one of the bigger brackets. Meaning more fights and since Dallas is a pretty big event, there will probably be even more. If you fight Masters you will fight guys who are the same age and approximate weight but more experience. However, if they beat you they will beat you with technique and not power.

    If you are concerned about injury I would fight Masters. Take your 3 favorite throws and make a plan. If A happens you'll do B. If B happens you'll do C. Stick to your plan. If your plan gets interrupted, break grip, back out and start over.

    At our tournament, I run brackets so I get to watch matches from up close. The Masters matches were slower. There wasn't as much jerking around like you see in novice mens. Regardless of what you choose stay loose and have fun.
  10. TEA is online now
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    Charlie Don't Surf

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2012 10:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks. Some very good points, especially with regards to how hard young guys go and the risk of injury. That said, some of the older guys I train with go pretty hard in training, too. The brown and black belts just have an easier time throwing me.
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
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