Set up for Harai Goshi ideas

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 10/04/2012 4:56pm

Originally Posted by Cliff DOG

With the lapel grip a good shove into the throat usually breaks the balance and makes him react, and you can put your elbow under the arm pit for a stronger base. With the sleeve grip a good forward pull will lift up uki. When the neck shock makes uki react that is when you shuffle in while keepping the momentum moving forward.

I'm sorry I wasn't going to comment, but lol at this. Hahaha, go and do some real randori you muppet.

Neck shock... christ on a pogo stick.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 10/04/2012 5:10pm

Originally Posted by thp

I've been working on my harai goshi. Any good ideas for setting it up? Obviously I want to get my opponent up on his toes. How do you successfully set it up?

Thanks in advance.

Setting up is what you do to people who don't have a clue. Creating opportunities is what you do to people who know what they're doing.

Case in point

If your opponent has thrown the arm over the top and secured a deep grip, the absolute last thing you want to do is try and attack with an O soto. You should be posting the shoulder, shoulder rolling and trying to regain your posture.

I've written about the flawed mentality of the 'set up' so many times it makes my fingers ache. I know many coaches view it as useful way of simplifying the principle of action re-action, but really it does more harm than good. It's like using the stalk to explain where babies come from to high schoolers.

You can use movement and ashiwaza and other things to help create opportunities, but all those things do is to try and give you a leg up on the real skill, which is timing.

Timing is the ultimate 'set-up', because you don't have to do something you just react when an opponent makes a mistake.

Annoying thing about timing is that it's a pig to learn. It takes time, lots of randori, lots of quality instruction and above all lots of failure and frustration before you get it down.

This video of Komuro is a good example, the only time he uses 'set-ups' as espoused by the Anglo-phone Judo community is when he's dicking about with white belts. The rest of the time it's pure timing.

**1point2** · Posted On: 10/04/2012 9:36pm

That last vid, judoka_uk, is some of the finest judo I've seen on the internet. Thanks for the heads-up.

**Phil82** · Posted On: 10/05/2012 1:04am

^ what the fellow above me said, that was astonishing!!

**BKR** · Posted On: 10/10/2012 3:59pm

I'm a bit late to this thread, I see judoka-Uk put in the good word on "set ups", so I 'll leave that alone other than to say I used to fall into the same "set up" trap.

How "good" is your Harai Goshi? Can you do it well with a compliant uke, moving in different directions, in ai and kenka yotsu situations?

If so, not so much in the way of "set ups" are needed. Rather, you movement and attacks with ashi waza (or the combination of thereof) will usually get the job done.

That said, I often attack with a driving Kouchi Gari (in a right vs right gripping scenario), and if they step off/back, can fit into Harai Goshi (or just about any other forward throw) pretty well.

The key is as JUK noted, lots of randori, quality instruction, and quality training with a lot of nagekomi (throwing). It takes a good long while because there are many elements.

Komura is amazing. He is much more of an ideal judoka to me than most of the world champions and elite level players who get more press because of their high level accomplishments in competition.

Everytime someone tries some sort of weird grip on him, he uses it against them. And he does it against guys of his own rank and much larger judoka.

**BKR** · Posted On: 10/10/2012 4:10pm

Originally Posted by 1point2

My coach teaches a circling step that starts by stepping forward on a diagonal with your sleeve-grip side and backwards in a circle along with a strong pull on the lapel-grip side. If they follow, you continue the pull to bring them on their toes. Then hit your back-step.

Words are so, so inadequate for describing technique.

This would be the standard lapel side circle tai sabaki that everyone should learn and drill until they puke.

This type of movement is highlighted in the Nage No Kata by Uchi Mata.

If the OP hasn't learned this yet, it would be a good place to start.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 10/10/2012 5:37pm

Originally Posted by BKR

Komura is amazing. He is much more of an ideal judoka to me than most of the world champions and elite level players who get more press because of their high level accomplishments in competition.

Not that I disagree, I admire his Judo spirit and dedication to teaching, but I suspect our view of him is somewhat distorted by the fact he still competes against mere mortals.

The way he dominates the opposition isn't too dissimilar to the way my coach demolished his opponents in that video I sent you a while back, as you said, a shark in a .... tank.

Put Komuro against Inoue and we know who would win, put Inoue up against the amateur opponents Komuro faces and we'd see similar fireworks to Komuro.

**BKR** · Posted On: 10/13/2012 12:06pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Not that I disagree, I admire his Judo spirit and dedication to teaching, but I suspect our view of him is somewhat distorted by the fact he still competes against mere mortals.

The way he dominates the opposition isn't too dissimilar to the way my coach demolished his opponents in that video I sent you a while back, as you said, a shark in a .... tank.

Put Komuro against Inoue and we know who would win, put Inoue up against the amateur opponents Komuro faces and we'd see similar fireworks to Komuro.

Anyone against Inoue other than current elite athletes of his weight category would be pretty much a joke. Give Komuro a break.

He's doing his Judo against guys his size and larger (other than working on the kids/white belts), in shiai (kodokan high dan shiai in one case?), so they are not slouches at all. And doing some damned nice Judo at that. There are gradations of skill even among "mortals".

Ben