What the hell is Japanse Jujitsu in the UK/US?

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 11/08/2012 3:36pm

Originally Posted by NeilG

Judo and kendo are also gendai budo. The term just means modern martial arts.

Any Japanese martial art founded after the Meiji Restoration (~1869) is technically gendai budo. It's in contrast to koryu (ancient martial arts). Virtually no JJJ you'll see in the US is koryu. So, yes, technically, Judo is gendai budo (by about a dozen years). My description of the characteristics of most gendai budo is accurate, however.

**Keej613** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 9:18am

Originally Posted by Res Judicata

My description of the characteristics of most gendai budo is accurate, however.

Most?

**Nickosaurus** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 9:39am

The subject of lineage is an interesting one because it seems to be very important in non-competitive systems. Is this because they do not test their skills against students from other clubs?

**Keej613** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 10:45am

Originally Posted by Nickosaurus

The subject of lineage is an interesting one because it seems to be very important in non-competitive systems. Is this because they do not test their skills against students from other clubs?

The subject of lineage is very important in many competitive systems, too. Have you never seen how often BJJ guys get their panties in a bunch over lineage, affiliations, gradings, etc?

**tmorterlaing** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 10:48am

Originally Posted by Nickosaurus

The subject of lineage is an interesting one because it seems to be very important in non-competitive systems. Is this because they do not test their skills against students from other clubs?

I think this may be the case some times, but its usually obvious when theyre trying to prove something (you know, 'my club is the ultimate because I am the descendant of Musashi and Chuck Norris'). However some times I think it's more a way of suggesting that what people are learning is more 'traditional'- remember not all martial arts are to fight or compete, some are to continue an ancient tradition and art, so knowledge of the lineage may actually be interesting in those contexts perhaps?

**tmorterlaing** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 10:49am

Originally Posted by Nickosaurus

The subject of lineage is an interesting one because it seems to be very important in non-competitive systems. Is this because they do not test their skills against students from other clubs?

I think this may be the case some times, but its usually obvious when theyre trying to prove something (you know, 'my club is the ultimate because I am the descendant of Musashi and Chuck Norris'). However some times I think it's more a way of suggesting that what people are learning is more 'traditional'- remember not all martial arts are to fight or compete, some are to continue an ancient tradition and art, so knowledge of the lineage may actually be interesting in those contexts perhaps?

**Keej613** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 11:27am

Originally Posted by tmorterlaing

I think this may be the case some times, but its usually obvious when theyre trying to prove something (you know, 'my club is the ultimate because I am the descendant of Musashi and Chuck Norris'). However some times I think it's more a way of suggesting that what people are learning is more 'traditional'- remember not all martial arts are to fight or compete, some are to continue an ancient tradition and art, so knowledge of the lineage may actually be interesting in those contexts perhaps?

Like the difference between budo / martial arts and kakutogi / fighting arts.

I used to train at a Kung-Fu school. What drew me to them was their Sanshou (Sanda) program. They also had a kickboxing program. But it turned out that their big ticket item (the program with the most members) was their Northern Praying Mantis Kung-Fu program. That's where you could really see the difference between martial art and fighting art. The Kung-Fu program was more about preserving and promoting the traditional art whereas the the Sanshou and kickboxing programs were more about combats sports and practical application of fighting techniques.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 11:45am

Originally Posted by Keej613

Most?

Judo is technically gendai budo, but it's nothing like most "JJJ." I should mention that there are also various JJJ styles that are essentially Judo that has been modified in an attempt to make it more self-defense oriented.

**Nickosaurus** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 1:13pm

Originally Posted by Nickosaurus

The subject of lineage is an interesting one because it seems to be very important in non-competitive systems. Is this because they do not test their skills against students from other clubs?

Yes I have indeed, I guess associations are important to everyone its validation for the art and a feeling of belonging for the student

**Nickosaurus** · Posted On: 11/09/2012 1:22pm

Originally Posted by tmorterlaing

I think it's more a way of suggesting that what people are learning is more 'traditional'- remember not all martial arts are to fight or compete, some are to continue an ancient tradition and art, so knowledge of the lineage may actually be interesting in those contexts perhaps?

You're right of course and there are lots of people who are interested and as long as they know it won't give them the same skills as 'alive' training then it can be a fun way to keep fit.

that is why its shameful to find people charging (often quite large) fees to learn something which is neither effective or traditional.