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  1. Eliada is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2012 7:44pm


     Style: Boxing, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Nonlethal weaponry - for defense of others

    My question is situational, and the situation may come very soon. To better help you help me, I'm going to tell you a little story. Feel free to skip it.

    My girlfriend's mother's taste in men ranges from bad to absolutely, unbelievably terrible. For the past six years she's been in a tumultuous relationship with a man who, for the purposes of this thread, we'll call "Joe." Joe is an idiot and a drunk who primarily sustains himself by preying on other people's kindness. For these past six years he's leeched off the mother, unwilling and/or unable to hold down a job, perpetually owing the mother money and giving her just enough affection to satisfy her overwhelming personal insecurities and make himself wanted despite his incredible worthlessness. Joe also has anger issues, and when heated words are exchanged (and they often are), one can safely wager that he'll be quicker with his hands than his wits. Though the mother is in her late fifties (as opposed to his early forties) and much smaller, Joe, sober or not, is more than willing to strike her. Thankfully, the mother's son (who, having moderate schizophrenia, lives with her at the age of thirty) is a large man who takes great pleasure in ground-and-pounding the good-for-nothing whenever he steps out of line. The past six years have gone by in a fairly predictable routine: Joe acts up, attempts to strike the mother and is subdued and beaten by the son.

    Fortunately or unfortunately, the son has recently had a change in schizophrenia medication. Whereas he once would sleep all but three hours a day (unless roused by my girlfriend to give Joe an ass-beating), he's now active for almost a full twelve hours, most of which he has chosen to socialization outside of the house. This is great for his social life, and certainly great for his quality of life, but unfortunately, since the son is as often outside of the house as he is inside, Joe's natural predator is gone.

    My girlfriend isn't worried. She views Joe's violent mood swings as the natural consequence of her mom's bad decision-making. She knows that her mother is psychologically dependent on Joe (she's put up with this same **** for six years, after all) and unwilling to make the right choice, so she waits for Joe to land a blow and calls the cops (if she calls the cops before Joe gets violent, her mom takes his side and the violence is merely postponed to sometime she isn't present to phone the police). I am her opinion - that the mother is willingly bringing this upon herself and is responsible for the consequences - but if the situation comes, I can't stand idly by and allow anyone around me to be beaten.

    Which leads me to my question. I have but five months of boxing training and three weeks of BJJ training under my belt, certainly not enough to subdue this average-sized (probably 5'10" - still larger than me, a wee man at only 5'7") but very strong man with high pain tolerance - not, at least, without taking significant damage myself. What can I use to stack the odds in my favor? I doubt the police would allow me to blow his brains out or spill his guts open (though the world would be better for it. He's the only man I know personally who I can say that about), so it'd have to be nonlethal and preferably non-reliant on pain compliance. What's more, it'd have to be very well-controlled - I wouldn't want the mother to be caught in collateral damage. There would be a window of time to prepare for an outburst of violence (just enough to wrap my hands), so the weapon doesn't have to be insta-deployable. Most of these incidents happen over one or two rooms of the mother's very cramped house, so it'd also have to be effective in very close quarters.

    This is all hypothetical, as no such unmitigated event has ever occurred, but an argument between Joe and the mother very nearly spilled over into violence yesterday and the son wasn't present to defend her. Any advice on a weapon to use or tactics to employ would be appreciated. I would much, much, much rather be safe than sorry.

    Thanks.
  2. SteveM is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2012 9:26pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Central Texas Combatives Training Group Style: AMOK!

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    I would much, much, much rather be safe than sorry.
    Your last line pretty much answered your own question. You need to stay safe and stay out of this domestic disaster.

    Right now you are premeditating assault and battery (or worse) on the internet, gave your motive, and have put together a great case for the DA to send you to prison.

    I know it's hard to watch people you care about engage in self-destructive behavior, like having a domestic abuser for a boyfriend. But...

    My girlfriend isn't worried. She views Joe's violent mood swings as the natural consequence of her mom's bad decision-making.
    Gotta trust the GF on this.

    I can't stand idly by and allow anyone around me to be beaten.
    No you shouldn't, but...

    There would be a window of time to prepare for an outburst of violence (just enough to wrap my hands), so the weapon doesn't have to be insta-deployable.
    This would be the window of time when you take the mother out of the house, call the police, and generally avoid/defuse the situation.

    "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" definitely applies in this case. Good luck.
  3. Eliada is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/29/2012 11:00pm


     Style: Boxing, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Surely discussing a contingency plan wouldn't be grounds for premeditated assault - after all, were that the case, having a handgun loaded under the pillow would be considered premeditated murder in the event of a break-in self-defense shooting. Is there any precedence for such a case? (There might be. Hell, I don't know.) Besides, I don't intend to hurt the guy any more than would be necessary to keep him off the mother (or, from the moment I try to separate them, me).

    I don't know if I could leave the house if a beating took place within. It's not only an issue of morality - it's also an issue of proximity. See, most of the time, my girlfriend and I are in the back of the house, with Joe and the mother at the head of it. The fighting usually starts between us and the sole doorway. There's one window between us and that door, and it's not big enough to fit me through (though it might be big enough for the girlfriend). To leave the house, I'd have to enter the room, and I don't know if I could pass through unharmed. Things get thrown; Joe quickly redirects his anger to anything at hand. And believe me, we wouldn't be having this conversation if I thought removing the mother from the matter was an option. Joe's been known to strike anyone who gets involved in his domestic disputes.

    Thanks for your input.

    EDIT: Just for the record, I'm keeping my girlfriend out of the house for as much time as I can, and she herself spends most of her time at relatives' houses. Offers have been extended over and over from multiple parties (relatives, friends, strangers) for her to live with them, away from the domestic chaos of her home life, but the mother won't allow it. She has to come home every night, and night's usually when things get bad. I try to be there on weekends (I worry about her, tho' she can handle herself. The gf's got balls of steel and probably wouldn't hesitate to stab him if he came at her - she's already employed potentially-lethal force against him on one such occasion), since I have school fifty miles away during the rest of the week.
    Last edited by Eliada; 9/29/2012 11:05pm at .
  4. searcher66071 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2012 12:28am


     Style: Karate-knockdown, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to agree with Steve and say, get out of the situation if at all possible. Call the police.

    Wrap the hands? Did I miss soemthing here? You think you will have time to wrap your hands? If you have that much time, definately get out of the house. In place of that, go to the kitchen and geta skillet. Hit that sob in the leg with that thing and/or his arms. It is less than lethal and a good shot will drop him like a rock.

    On a different side note, have you thought about a stun gun? Worst case, they can scare crap out of the guy.
  5. slamdunc is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2012 1:15am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    Surely discussing a contingency plan wouldn't be grounds for premeditated assault
    Surely, it could be a factor in prosecution, as could anything on your FaceBook, MySpace, Twitter, or anything you may have Google searched in relation to this proposed self-offense plan. Search warrants for electronic data can be very broad or narrow, depending on the prosecutor's request and the Judge's level of liberalism.
    This isn't the kind of work you would want to hire out either; loose lips and all.

    As much as this situation sucks, the thing that usually works is that the victim finally sees it for what it is, gets fed up, and leaves the situation. The other ending isn't near as nice, and I hope it doesn't come to that.

  6. bigato is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2012 6:12am

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     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get your gf out of the house now please.

    Anyway, make sure you train bjj at least 4 days a week and in three months you'll be much better. I had a student in a similar situation.

    Some tips.
    Most guys who like to beat weaker persons are cowards.
    A good hit to the kidneys of someone who has alcohol habitually is nasty.
    People on alcohol or drugs are easier to choke out or knock out; but take care because it's much more likely that they could have serious problems. I saw a weak drunk guy die from a hit to the head recently.
  7. erezb is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2012 7:22am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    pepper spray is good. He will be very angry, so do it as a last result thing, and only if he already struck someone and is about to again. Don't worry about talking over this online, this thing only holds if you actually went and killed the guy. The police is far too busy/lazy to start fucking digging on line. How many times a week do you train in each art? Both BJJ and Boxing are great, but it really depends on the intensity of your training.. You say this guy frightens you, he is strong aggressive and scary, well, i say pepper spray the **** out of him. But only after he attacks you...and remember that if he is still going to reappear in that house, it is going to be way more tens there for you after you made him cry and vomit. Just make sure you call the police first, that is important in domestic violence. IMO for a small guy like you, at least a year maybe even two in boxing (3 times a week) before you can KO some toughy in a fight. If you can get a couple of amateur fights it will hasten things and give you confidence. If you add to those 3 times some additional training especially grappling than your fitness and strength will be a key factor too.
    P.S you might consider video-recording him attacking the mother, that way they won't need her to testify and can press charges much easier.
    Last edited by erezb; 9/30/2012 7:26am at .
  8. slamdunc is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2012 7:29am

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     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    Don't worry about talking over this online, this thing only holds if you actually went and killed the guy. The police is far too busy/lazy to start fucking digging on line.
    This is true, unless you accidentally kill the fucker. The homicide guys have nothing better to do. They will track your cellphone activity (and the towers you were hitting off of), all your social network stuff, dump your hard drive and subpoena your internet service provider.

    Pepper spray would seem to be an option.

  9. dflanmod is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2012 9:36am

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     Style: BJJ

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some people won't be saved and you should not waste your energy on them. It sounds cruel and heartless but there is a difference between being a victim and making a lifstyle out of BEING A VICTIM. Don't ruin your life by getting sucked into the drama surrounding a person who willfully puts themselves into danger like this.

    Your girlfriends mother is a bigger loser than the guy beating her. Somebody is going to get seriously hurt or killed because of the **** that women is pulling.
  10. goodlun is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2012 3:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is a cluster and you know it. Stay as uninvolved as you can. I don't mean stand there and watch him beat her, but don't go looking to start **** or set yourself up in a situation.
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