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  1. #11
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you must take Karate, do Ashira, Enshin or Kyokushin. It is a hard task to find a shitty school, concerning these arts. Also, they'll beat this "I'll stop anything" mentality you have developed.

    Oh and Lyoto doesn't do the Shotokahn you think.

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Like Water View Post
    From what I've seen in his original post, what he's looking to gain is a falsely earned bit of confidence, coming from an art that does more more to inflate his ego than his level of martial prowess.
    I feel disheartened that you take my posting style as egotistical. If I came off in such a fashion, it was unintended.

    Yes, I would recommend kyokushin, and only kyokushin as far as karate goes. If there's a KK dojo near you by all means go in, check it out. If they don't do a fair bit of full contact, bare-knuckle sparring, be wary. For the record, Kyokushin is a striking art. A hell of a striking art, but a striking art nonetheless. Like all karate styles, they incorporate a judo throw, once in a blue moon, but they won't have the technical skill of a judoka by any means, when it comes to take downs. (Generalizations here of course, perhaps your local dojo is the exception to the "rule". Unlikely, but always possible.)

    So when comparing kyokushin and shotokan you're not comparing strikes vs. throws, you're comparing striking trained in an alive manner (kyo) vs. striking trained in a dead manner (shoto).
    This matches up in line with things I've read online, and sounds very thought out. Thank you for helping me with my considerations.

    All that being said, I still recommend Judo.
    May I kindly ask why?

  3. #13
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarateHopeful View Post
    May I kindly ask why?
    I highly suggest you take an evening out of your time and just go on down to the Judo school I gave you a link to. It will answer your question and trust me it will be worth your time even if you don't decide to do Judo you will have a much better idea of what it really does offer.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Having a firm stance with a low gravity isn't going to prevent someone from taking you down.
    Fully prevent, I agree. But I would think it would help towards prevention, along with other things.

    Ground fighting is a huge part of being effective in both a fighting and self defense situation. Like all things it takes more then the basics to be effective. Your really looking at BJJ blue belt level to be "street effective" against an untrained opponent. Something that takes some time and dedication to accomplish.
    Everything I've seen out of BJJ suggests that it's mostly for 1v1 confrontations. I have yet to see a demonstration where BJJ is used in a multiple opponent situation effectively. But if you have video proof of this, I will retract what I said in my 6th point.

    Once again you know nothing about grappling or takedowns I suggest you stop making assumptions about it based on videos.
    To the being big thing well I don't know of any art that thinks being smaller is "better" being in shape and your natural weight is usually considered good. Sport based arts do encourage people being able to get into an appropriate weight class for competing.
    I guess it's one of those, "You can't just see it, you have to do it." sort of things, so as a future student, I'm going to have to trust you on that. Also, don't most functions stress a limit, though? I know some greco-roman wrestling orgs, for instance, won't let you fight if you're above 285 lbs. So I need to know if that'll play a role in my training or if there're options that tend to be less anal about weight.

    Any of the arts that are associated with Aliveness will take care of this issue.
    Curious, how can you tell if an art is "dead" or "not lively"?

    Also, I deeply apologize for coming off as a "talk before I think" person. It's one of those flaws I have issue with, and I feel rather foolish.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    If you must take Karate, do Ashira, Enshin or Kyokushin. It is a hard task to find a shitty school, concerning these arts. Also, they'll beat this "I'll stop anything" mentality you have developed.

    Oh and Lyoto doesn't do the Shotokahn you think.
    That's the first time I've heard of Ashira or Enshin. Are they similar to Kyokushin? And you said the Shotokan Lyoto does is different than the usual? Are you referring to the more traditional shotokan not available in America, or are you referring to him mixing it heavily with his BJJ and Judo profile?

  6. #16
    lionknight's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KarateHopeful View Post

    Everything I've seen out of any martial art school suggests that it's mostly for 1v1 confrontations. I have yet to see a demonstration where any martial art is used in a multiple opponent situation effectively. But if you have video proof of this, I will retract what I said in my 6th point.
    Fixed that for you.


    Don't get lost in the whole multiple opponent thing.

    Don’t get pushed into something you don’t want also. There are good karate schools out there, just remember to take your time and do your research and find what works best for you.

  7. #17
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarateHopeful View Post
    That's the first time I've heard of Ashira or Enshin. Are they similar to Kyokushin? And you said the Shotokan Lyoto does is different than the usual? Are you referring to the more traditional shotokan not available in America, or are you referring to him mixing it heavily with his BJJ and Judo profile?
    Here:

    SI.com: It seems Lyoto has made changes to apply the karate you taught him to work for MMA. Did it take time to get comfortable with the idea of adapting karate to be useful for mixed martial arts?

    Machida: Lyoto's base is karate. That is where his foundation is, and that's pretty obvious. But in mixed martial arts you can't just be focused on one art. Judo, jiu-jitsu, boxing, Muay Thai, karate -- all these martial arts have one thing in common. The spirit of the martial art is the same. However, a lot of time instructors focus on technique and strength, but they don't focus on the mind and spiritual side of it. I like to incorporate everything, because a lot of it is spiritual and mental when you're going in the ring. How do you control yourself? A lot of times the fighter enters the ring nervous, not knowing what his opponent is thinking. With family being around to offer support and love, that can make him feel a lot more relaxed.

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...#ixzz27oiH5Aym
    http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles...atriarch-20388
    Sherdog.com: Did you see Lyoto rescuing the real Karate?

    Yoshizo: Yes, because the fight canít only be about taking points from the opponent. For example, the guy can score 20 points in Judo, but if he takes an Ippon, he will loose, just like in jiu-jitsu. For what reason are the points important? If the guy is submitted or knocked out, itís over. I always tell Lyoto that he has to finish the fight, not just take points. Once it starts, he has to try to finish as soon as possible. Of course, sometimes someone who paid to see five rounds will probably be disappointed to see the fight end in the first round, but the real fighter wants to see the fight finished as soon as possible.
    His father taught him differently and he has trained differently.

  8. #18
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarateHopeful View Post
    Fully prevent, I agree. But I would think it would help towards prevention, along with other things.
    I am not saying a lower center of gravity is a bad thing or that you want a high center.
    Its more has to do with it just doesn't really matter. If you get in a fight with a Wrestler, Foot Ball player, Judoka, or anyone else who tackles or throws your going down no matter what stance you take, unless you are specifically training to stop a takedown with people who know how to execute a proper takedown.
    Also I would focus more on mobility then being rooted.

    Quote Originally Posted by KarateHopeful View Post
    Everything I've seen out of BJJ suggests that it's mostly for 1v1 confrontations. I have yet to see a demonstration where BJJ is used in a multiple opponent situation effectively. But if you have video proof of this, I will retract what I said in my 6th point.
    This is a very big topic, we can go in many directions with. However good techinques for one vs one translate better to multiple people better then shitty techniques that don't work at all.
    The tools given to you in BJJ to deal with Multiple Oppents are
    The ability to stay on your feet.
    The ability to get back to your feet if you do end up on the ground.
    The ability to get someone off of you.
    Being in very good condition and use to taken hard hits with the ground.
    The ability to manhandle people, throw them, and move on.
    A multiple person situation is one that anyone is going to want to get out of as soon as possible and is likely to start as a complete surprise. This is key, BJJ is a very good art to get you out of a bad starting position. Someone comes up and sucker punches you or tackles you out of the blue you have the tools to recover, get to your feet and get the **** away.


    Quote Originally Posted by KarateHopeful View Post
    I guess it's one of those, "You can't just see it, you have to do it." sort of things, so as a future student, I'm going to have to trust you on that. Also, don't most functions stress a limit, though? I know some greco-roman wrestling orgs, for instance, won't let you fight if you're above 285 lbs. So I need to know if that'll play a role in my training or if there're options that tend to be less anal about weight.
    Look I get it your a big guy and you enjoy it. Most schools even competion schools are not going to be on you to cut down. You will however find out once you start being particularly active you may want to be down to the 285 range, your still a "big guy" but you will be healthier, faster, and then able to compete. Also their are things that have completely open weight class or an absolute class.

    Quote Originally Posted by KarateHopeful View Post
    Curious, how can you tell if an art is "dead" or "not lively"?
    Poke around this site and you will see a couple of videos that cover this well.

    Quote Originally Posted by KarateHopeful View Post
    Also, I deeply apologize for coming off as a "talk before I think" person. It's one of those flaws I have issue with, and I feel rather foolish.
    This is what Newbie town is here for, enjoy it while you can. Nothing wrong with being cerebral as long as you can admit to the flaws that are inherit in it.

  9. #19

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know how much you value something that does work vs something that will make you feel better. If you are serious about making a good choice, what about you trying at least one or two weeks of training in at least three different arts? I could tell you a lot about how you are making wrong assumptions, but being face to face I could show you and you would understand very quick. Any good instructor in person will be able to help you a lot more than we could via internet.

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To 'It is Fake': That is very deep. I gotta say, gives you a lot more to respect Machida for, that's for certain. Curious, what's your style?

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