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  1. lordbd is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/06/2014 7:41pm


     Style: Hung Gar

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kung Fu and Workin Those Lats




    Hung Gar newb here. I've been working on three main things: 1) an introductory set 2) dynamic stance training and 3) figuring out what the hell bridge hand is and what its for.

    Anyway I have a background in personal training and other health stuff, so its hard for me to take the advice about "putting the energy in the right place" without trying to break it down into more concrete things. In that regard, I've noticed that as I get more detailed corrections to how I am doing bridge hands and other moves (subduing hand, separate, different punches and hand strikes) a lot of it seems to include using your bodyweight (duh, just like in any martial art) but also really engaging the lats and other big back muscles in what I think are some interesting ways that I handn't thought of.

    For example, when doing a subduing hand which involves blocking or trapping downward, I keep getting advice to keep my arms "curved like a bow" and to "sink the energy." When I'm doing it right, it seems to be about more than just settling my bodyweight down, but I also really feel my lats flexing and adding some muscle power above and beyond what my arms could do.

    Anyway, this may be obvious stuff but I welcome more enlightened thoughts on the body-mechanics of these "hard" kung-fu moves.
  2. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2014 10:10pm

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     Style: 無木兔

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    Which set?

    A bridge has several meanings not the least of which is a good strong forearm. There is no Hung ga without a good strong forearm. Besides that the bridges are basically a set of tactics for engaging and advancing past someone's standing guard, entries to the clinch range. There is some pretty simple theory behind it based on different angles of attack and countering, and opening the opponents "gates", "doors", etc.

    The key thing with the bridges is that alone they are useless. They have to be combined with the core and leg conditioning of Hung ga to be worth anything. Just having strong forearms is not enough to have a good kiu sau, as you said the back, core shoulders, and footwork all play critical parts in unison.

    "putting the energy to the right place" largely means moving the appropriate weight through the right path, using good body structure and framing.

    These are the 12 forms for training bridges in hung ga, but early on you should not really worry about this stuff. These bridges are spread throughout the curriculum even the first forms, and are learned in their application form first. Later on you'll see how these 12 positions recur over and over in Hung ga.

    Sifu Sharif Bey has a good video version of these on Youtube.

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/08/2014 10:17pm at .
  3. Resonance10 is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2014 7:09am

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     Style: Taiji/Hsingyi

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    Yeah, here's Bey Sifu's video.

    Note the body use and 'opening and closing' 'pressing and lifting' etc.

    A good teacher should be able to help you get this gradually.

    Try doing the movements with less speed and slightly less intensity to give yourself more of a chance at feeling what's going on.

  4. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2014 10:15am

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "when a hung ga fighter encounters a bridge, he crosses it." - hung ga saying

    WR did a good job of explaining the basics, but i thought i should leave that little snippet in the thread as well.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  5. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2014 12:01am

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     Style: 無木兔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I almost forgot. One of the best movie versions of the Hung ga bridges, 0:00 - 0:49

  6. lordbd is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2014 6:13pm


     Style: Hung Gar

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Which set?
    Sifu O has a "basic" set that he made up to teach footwork and some basic hung gar moves, presumably so he would not have to waste time teaching taming the tiger to students who were not in for the long haul. It's a little hard to explain but in my notes I have the names of the parts of the form:

    Gold star punches corner, Push the mountain, shoot the arrow.
    Black dragon swings tail , Pinch the golden scissors, Separate, Clear the gate, bowl punch, Cover the head, Front snap toe kick, Return the hit, elbow, groin strike, backfist, Separate, paw the sand, Rake, jab, 1,000 character cutting hand, block and chop, Initiate the grab, wind up, double falling hammers

    It's actually really fucking fun to learn.
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2014 10:38pm

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     Style: 無木兔

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordbd View Post
    Sifu O has a "basic" set that he made up to teach footwork and some basic hung gar moves, presumably so he would not have to waste time teaching taming the tiger to students who were not in for the long haul. It's a little hard to explain but in my notes I have the names of the parts of the form:

    Gold star punches corner, Push the mountain, shoot the arrow.
    Black dragon swings tail , Pinch the golden scissors, Separate, Clear the gate, bowl punch, Cover the head, Front snap toe kick, Return the hit, elbow, groin strike, backfist, Separate, paw the sand, Rake, jab, 1,000 character cutting hand, block and chop, Initiate the grab, wind up, double falling hammers

    It's actually really fucking fun to learn.
    Those all sound like techniques from the Gung Gi Fuk Fu, just extracted from the larger "mix". Wong Fei Hung who choreographed the modern GGFF "synthesized" the form from different pieces. But definitely you can extract 5-10 pieces out of the full form and end up with a decent set of basic kickboxing techniques. The idea with practicing them in a larger form is to build endurance and stronger stepping, "ging" etc.

    If you start to learn the GGFF, you'll understand what I mean. Crossfit, Turbofire..these have nothing on the GGFF. It will kick the ass of well conditioned people, let alone the average person.

    Taming the Tiger in I Pattern has somewhere between 120-130 movements. It took me a year to learn the whole sequence but many parts repeat and there are parts that are themselves mini-sets, like the "Chin ji sao" 1000 Character Hand that can become their own practice material.

    The thing I like about Hung ga fist sets compared to say Shotokan kata is the modularity. There is never a need to learn the WHOLE THING...you will learn individual things or combinations of things that are good material on their own.

    Without going into the whole history, small sets were common in Hung ga lineages until Wong Fei Hung, who combined MANY different things into his 4 core routines which became the pillars of the style...however those smaller sets are still common in many Hung ga lineages today. Even with the 19th century "synthesis", they have not vanished. It's almost random, the small sets a particular Hung ga school might teach, in addition to the major sets.

    After BJJ class one night XXIV busted out a short Hung ga routine I had never seen before. It was short and simple but all the hallmarks were there. I've found it common to come across Hung ga folks who know these small sets and not the four pillar sets, even if they are pretty good with basic san da skills.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/11/2014 10:45pm at .
  8. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2014 7:08pm

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     Style: 無木兔

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ng mun, or Five Gates:

    "The five gates are separated into the upper, middle, lower, left, and right. The upper gate has seven openings, the middle has heart and chest, the lower has yin-yang, whereas the left gate has the left arm and leg, and the right gate, has the right arm and leg. One can asses the opponent's strength and weakness, by observing, his mun-wu [gate]; those who are unmindful of the gates are easily defeated"
    - Lam Sai Wing as translated in Lam Chun Fai's book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Hung-Kuen-Fund.../dp/9881847524
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/16/2014 7:11pm at .
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2014 11:57pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I almost forgot. One of the best movie versions of the Hung ga bridges, 0:00 - 0:49


    This. THIS THIS THIS THIS, IT IS MY MOST FAVORITE KUNG-FU MOVIE OF ALL TIME. CANNOT GIVE YOU SOOOOO MUCH THUMBS UP!!!!!!!
  10. lordbd is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2014 6:45pm


     Style: Hung Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Ng mun, or Five Gates:

    - Lam Sai Wing as translated in Lam Chun Fai's book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Hung-Kuen-Fund.../dp/9881847524
    I freaking love this book. They're coming out with another one!
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