1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Good advice from a Brown belt--grip burning

    I'm not the brown belt, I received the advice, and thought I'd spread the love around. Last night during our jits class, had a particular match during randori that lasted ten goddamn minutes. Which may not be much for you middle and light weights, but I'm a solid built 240, and so is the dude I was rolling with--didn't gas out, but once again I was made intensely aware that the tired dude gets subbed. Made some good sweeps and transitions that I'm proud of having a decent grasp on (I'm a one-stripe white belt in our jujitsu system...which means I know enough not to make an immediate ass out of myself, but not too much more, haha), especially because the dude was so damn big. There is no greater pleasure for me on the mat then pulling these things off on a dude bigger than I... you just don't know you've really got the tech until muscle doesn't matter. Anyway, I spent a good minute and a half trying to get a bow-and-arrow choke from inside his closed guard (I know this sounds stupid. I was hoping he would go for the bar or triangle, and I'd use the opening of his guard to transition.) Eventually got into decent position, after giving that one up and just passing the guard, and finished with a collar choke.....five minutes later. I'd completely burnt my grip on that long-ass first choke attempt, and couldn't pull following subs off well because I'd wasted so much strength and energy.
    Asked the present brown belt for some advice after watching us roll, and he told me not to be so stubborn with my submission attempts-that in jujitsu our best chance at getting a sub is similar to how we get our throws during stand up, by kazushi/off-balancing. Once dude knows what you're fighting to sink in he can defend it. I've gotta learn to transition and chain sub-attempts if I want to close with gents my own size and strength. So, fellow white belts, do that. Haha.

  2. #2

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bow and arrow choke from inside guard just makes no sense whatsovever. With that being said, don't just hold a collar/sleeve/lapel/whatever grip if it's doing nothing for you. If you're not actively using it to get a sub, break his posture, or adjust your own position in relation to him, it's not doing anything but tiring you out and putting your arms at risk for a sub.

    This sounds simply like an experience issue. Just give it time, work on fundamentals, and try to avoid just grabbing grips willy nilly. I understand that when you're working against someone smaller and faster, this may be your initial inclination. (I'm clocking in at about 240 myself, and understand) It can sometimes help to grip up and slow them down. But understand just what you're trying to achieve with the grips. Don't just dangle on someone's collar for no reason. It'll just fatigue you and can potentially put you at risk.

  3. #3

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Excellent advice, thank you. I may be mis-labeling the choke--we mostly use the Japanese names. We sometimes call it a baseball bat choke. I've used it from the guard once or twice successfully, but only against littler fellows. However you call it, dumb move on my part. Thanks again for the sound advice.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBradford View Post
    Excellent advice, thank you. I may be mis-labeling the choke--we mostly use the Japanese names. We sometimes call it a baseball bat choke. I've used it from the guard once or twice successfully, but only against littler fellows. However you call it, dumb move on my part. Thanks again for the sound advice.
    What's the Japanese name?

  5. #5
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i tried to read up on your school, is it http://www.shinbukandojo.com/ ?

    if so, i am confused, as it says that they teach both kodokan judo *and* danzan-ryu *and* kempo in the same class. it also sounds from your post that you equate the training to BJJ (using BJJ names for techniques, etc.)

    so, does your dojo compete in judo and/or BJJ tournaments? i see references to *internal* shiai within your association on the website, but it's not clear that a student at your dojo will be able to earn judo rank, or compete in judo competition.

    if your dojo does compete in open competition, then we would love to hear about how the students have done, especially at the higher levels (black belt judo and over purple belt at least in BJJ.) if your dojo doesn't do so, then you won't get a lot of support on this website, as we consider insular schools that don't compete to be practicing sub-par grappling or as we say here, crappling. the reason for this is that it is way too easy to learn sub-par technique in an environment without external testing.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  6. #6

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    Hello Ming Loyalist,

    We don't teach these all at the same class. The DZR and Kodokan Judo are taught in one class, and the kenpo-jujitsu in another. I use the terms that have sunk in to the grappling lexicon from the popularity of MMA--it's easier to communicate to mixed audience that way. At least, I think it is. I don't equate Judo/DZR/Bjj, although I do think we're all doing similar things at the root. Or should be. We certainly do compete in Judo tournaments-and not just those within our organization. Judo rank is only earned with competition for us, while DZR rank can be earned with mat time alone. We don't compete in BJJ tourneys ( although I imagine that would be fun...and a great way to get our ground game refined). I don't have a list of results for our tournament successes, only having started training on the Judo and DZR side of the dojo recently. I'll ask around. Judo tournaments are an important part of what we do, though most of our competitors are younger folk these days. I'm well aware of the opinion that insular schools end up with sub par grappling....cant argue that, it's true.

  7. #7
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    good to know, and thanks for the detailed and non-butthurt reply (we get a fair number of people who go crazy when asked questions like these.)

    the reason that i asked was that there are a few out there running japanese jujutsu programs here in the US, who say that they practice "traditional kodokan judo" yet don't compete and don't randori, only practicing dead kata patterns. they say that their waza are "too deadly" for competition and that they do "the real judo", so when someone comes on here describing a program that mixes judo with other jujutstu, eyebrows get raised and questions get asked.

    as you seem to know, competition is the gold standard, and it separates the wheat from the chaff, so as long as your dojo competes in open competition, then you should have a good idea of what your system is capable of.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  8. #8

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No worries at all, I understand the impulse--the idea of Judo without randori is bewildering. Same with Jiujutsu.... you don't know a throw or submission until you can put it on a fellow who doesn't want to go. You've got me inspired to check out my local BJJ tournaments--assuming they'll let a judoka/jujitsuka from another style roll with them. I need to work on my ne-waza anyway, couldn't hurt to test my skill against the specialists.

  9. #9

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    Amen, brotha. That's a good attitude to have.

  10. #10

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know this took a little bit, but here's a couple short videos of myself in a recent tournament. Competed in Sport Jujitsu--which has interesting rules. Striking and grappling, although the striking is a bit limited in that you can't make straight shots to the face....which is, uh, difficult to work around. Turns out not having your jab or cross to work with sucks, who knew? Still, got in a few solid sweeps, sprawled well, and connected with some decent kicks. I've certainly done worse, hahaha. My opponent was a solid dude, and a great sport.

    Fun competition anyway, fought 3 matches and took home first. Good people, Good times. Anyway, nothing all that impressive, but thought I'd put up my performance. I'm the burlier fellow with the green belt.

    http://youtu.be/bdB_dP7xbPk

    http://youtu.be/Pn10kmFOi48

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