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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Muay Thai is equal to Judo, IMO, for SD.
    I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. I meant Judo vs. BJJ, for the first 8 months, in my opinion, judo may very well teach more immediately self-defense applicable moves. Since he's planning to crosstrain though, it really doesn't matter. The MT will teach him different, equally effective concepts for dealing with the clinch.

    And Eliada I second that opinion, and also offer that I usually see better head movement from boxers than Muay Thai guys, as well. At least on the lower level.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    No matter your decision, remember it's not the art but the artist. Stay fit and train hard!
    Wrong it is the art or more accurately the training method. In this case Judo and BJJ/MT and Boxing so happen to largely share the same training method
    So basically to the OP as long as your training something with aliveness your going to develop the skills you need to deal with a resisting opponent.
    Since your planning on training in both grappling and striking you have your bases pretty well covered.
    At this point its just finding a GYM and a system that works for you, your schedule, your budget, you interest.
    also for completeness here is what we mean about aliveness.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Wrong it is the art or more accurately the training method. [...]So basically to the OP as long as your training something with aliveness your going to develop the skills you need to deal with a resisting opponent.
    How can aliveness be considered part of the art? That's ridiculous. Martial arts are skill sets. Fighting isn't all about the options available to you - it's about how well you can execute those abilities. You can train Muay Thai without aliveness and TKD with it, and TKD would be more effective. Training for actual implementation falls within the responsibilities of the martial artist and his chosen learning environment (read: dojo/gym) rather than the art itself. To produce results, you need to train in a way that lends itself to competent combat performance, which is what I was saying in the first place.

    For clarity's sake, OP, no matter what martial art you choose, if it isn't taught at full contact with increasing levels of resistance, you aren't learning anything applicable. Make sure your learning environment actually breeds growth.

  4. #34
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    How can aliveness be considered part of the art? That's ridiculous. Martial arts are skill sets. Fighting isn't all about the options available to you - it's about how well you can execute those abilities. You can train Muay Thai without aliveness and TKD with it, and TKD would be more effective. Training for actual implementation falls within the responsibilities of the martial artist and his chosen learning environment (read: dojo/gym) rather than the art itself. To produce results, you need to train in a way that lends itself to competent combat performance, which is what I was saying in the first place.

    For clarity's sake, OP, no matter what martial art you choose, if it isn't taught at full contact with increasing levels of resistance, you aren't learning anything applicable. Make sure your learning environment actually breeds growth.
    You created two logical fallacies to agree with what he said. WOW. You do understand that "aliveness" has been trained, for centuries, as part of fighting arts right? They just used different terms.

  5. #35

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    I called a BJJ gym and they said they teach the art, but not self defense. Am I better off with krav maga or Keysi? Or is bjj-mt or judo-boxing better?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsem View Post
    I called a BJJ gym and they said they teach the art, but not self defense. Am I better off with krav maga or Keysi? Or is bjj-mt or judo-boxing better?
    Judo, Boxing, BJJ, and MT are all good choices. It now comes down to your budgeting and scheduling. Also comes down to getting to the 4 different gyms and trying them all out to see what is the best fit for you as far as instructor and class mates, environment and the what not. A place you will actually go and train at is far better than one you will not.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsem View Post
    I called a BJJ gym and they said they teach the art, but not self defense. Am I better off with krav maga or Keysi? Or is bjj-mt or judo-boxing better?
    This seems off. I don't know of one martial art school that would say they don't teach self defence. Even schools that teach **** techniques say that they teach self defence. I am wondering if you even called, or if you did, how you worded this particular question.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
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    I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
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    I <3 Battlefields...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    This seems off. I don't know of one martial art school that would say they don't teach self defence. Even schools that teach **** techniques say that they teach self defence. I am wondering if you even called, or if you did, how you worded this particular question.
    Around these parts we certainly have gym's that focus exclusively on the sports aspects and even they claim good its good for self defense.

    So I have to agree I find it very odd.

  9. #39

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    Sorry for the confusion, what he said when I called is that the focus is on the art of BJJ (as a sport and discipline), not self defense. He acknowledged that some self defense will be learned obviously, but that the techniques are not tailored towards that. It is the art, and it will be respected as the art rather than focusing on self defense elements. And the reason I ask is because, given my short time, I don't want to choose a discipline where any time is attributed to anything beyond learning technique (i.e. a lot of classes I've attended spend 30 minutes warming up and getting into shape. I can do that myself. I am there to lean, not do 1000 crunches and jumping jacks. I know it helps, but let me do that during my strength and conditioning workout at the gym. And I definitely don't want a discipline that spends tons of time on learning forms). I want street applicable stuff. I don't need to know tournament rules or the history of BJJ (although that'd be cool in time, but at this point I need pure practicality). Thus why I ask about Krav and Keysi, which are more "street oriented" but I'm not sure if they equal value to the other disciplines. Truth be told I took a krav course, and the guy running it was def a bit of a drill sgt, but I didn't feel much safer leaving that gym. As opposed to two different private BJJ classes I've taken in which I asked the instructor to teach me self defense techniques, and I saw them to be quite practical. problem is I can't afford private classes, so it has to be a class scene.

  10. #40
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsem View Post
    Sorry for the confusion, what he said when I called is that the focus is on the art of BJJ (as a sport and discipline), not self defense. He acknowledged that some self defense will be learned obviously, but that the techniques are not tailored towards that. It is the art, and it will be respected as the art rather than focusing on self defense elements. And the reason I ask is because, given my short time, I don't want to choose a discipline where any time is attributed to anything beyond learning technique (i.e. a lot of classes I've attended spend 30 minutes warming up and getting into shape. I can do that myself. I am there to lean, not do 1000 crunches and jumping jacks. I know it helps, but let me do that during my strength and conditioning workout at the gym. And I definitely don't want a discipline that spends tons of time on learning forms). I want street applicable stuff. I don't need to know tournament rules or the history of BJJ (although that'd be cool in time, but at this point I need pure practicality). Thus why I ask about Krav and Keysi, which are more "street oriented" but I'm not sure if they equal value to the other disciplines. Truth be told I took a krav course, and the guy running it was def a bit of a drill sgt, but I didn't feel much safer leaving that gym. As opposed to two different private BJJ classes I've taken in which I asked the instructor to teach me self defense techniques, and I saw them to be quite practical. problem is I can't afford private classes, so it has to be a class scene.
    The thing here is there is only a hairs margin between "Street" JuiJitsu and "Sport" JuiJitsu. You won't spend time learning "tournament rules" or "history". You will be taught positions that are dominate in both sport and self defense. The same base that you need for both the street and sport is the exact same. It is also developed the same way.

    There are no secret street techniques the only road to self defense is hard work and putting time in on the mat. The best way to do this is with a combat sport. Boxing, Judo, BJJ or MT will all give you the strong base in techniques that you can use on a resisting opponent that is out to hurt you. They all approach it slightly different but the results are pretty much the same. You get to train in a realistic manner against someone out to hurt you.

    Its a matter of finding the right gym at this point not the right martial art, the right gym is one that trains in aliveness like Boxing, Judo, BJJ and MT do.

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