1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    new to Bullshido and MA (KFM here) alike but loving both so far

    Hey folks. I live on Long Island, which is an awful, awful place. In order to pass the time (and because of my crippling insecurity/body image issues) I started working out a lot about a year ago, went from 195 lbs (six feet tall) with no real muscle to 170-ish and a good bit of muscle. My cardio workout was half-assed shadowboxing, i.e., bouncing around for 30 minutes while throwing the punches a former TX golden gloves champ taught me when he was drunk, which was fun, but felt really stupid after a while (because everyone I knew who actually did any kind of martial arts said I was just teaching myself bad habits). So I looked for a gym near me and found out there was one next to my favorite local pizza place teaching this thing called Keysi Fighting Method. So.

    Before I signed up, I did a lot of reading about Keysi. I found that on the internet almost 100% of people who had never actually done KFM said (based on the promotional videos) "lol any boxer/BJJ/Muay Thai guy would destroy them in a second lol lol YOLO lol," whereas about 90% of people who HAD done some KFM said that it was actually pretty chill. Plus, you know the KFM thread on this site, where a KFM instructor showed up and quite politely offered free lessons? That particular gym's a mile from my house. So I decided to risk it. So far I love it--I finally realized that something has been missing from my life since I was born. I did the postmodern intellectual college thing, I did the artistic thing (guitar, banjo, singing, etc), but there was a gap, a lack, so to speak, in the subjectivity of my waking existence. I have come to realize that what I really needed to complete my holy mind/art/body trinity was not to just lift weights, but to be punched in the face on a regular basis.

    I decided to post this thread because I've been going to KFM classes for about three weeks now, and after sitting in on a couple of Shotokan, boxing, and TKD sessions elsewhere (as well as reading quite a few Bullshido threads to see what the consensus usually is as far as what's total bullshit and what's only somewhat bullshit (i.e., everything that isn't total bullshit)), I've concluded that this KFM place I'm going to is pretty cool, so I'm not totally embarrassed to talk to you guys anymore. Obviously I'm not much of a fighter yet, but I'm trying.

    So, I know you guys are always really curious about how training is conducted at any gym, particularly when it comes to lesser-known or ridiculously publicized (nananananananananananananananana BATMAN) styles. In lieu of saying too much more about myself, then (feel free to ask, though), and instead of posting a review just yet (I will, once I've been doing this long enough to see how KFM teaches grappling, groundwork, etc--so far we've only been doing stand-up striking drills, which makes sense for a beginner I think), I'll talk a little about my experience at the gym I'm going to, and you guys can ask questions and make fun of me (or, alternately, completely ignore this thread).

    So, first of all, a lot of guys in my class (of maybe 20-25 people, smallish dedicated space; two instructors, one senior (the guy who posted on Bullshido; ex-cop and p. chill dude) and one junior) have been doing boxing/MT/BJJ/etc for years. I've asked five or six different people how this compares to what they've done before, and absolutely without exception the answer has been that this is more realistic, closer to real fighting, and more intense, especially for a beginner class. I'm not saying KFM is always like that (how would I know?), just that this gym is apparently legit. It's also easily the best workout I've ever had--drills (one guy puts on focus mitts, moves around and hits the other guy in a variety of ways, generally in the face, hard, as the other guy blocks, counters, moves in and out, etc) last 5 minutes, I believe, of which the last 30 seconds are burnout (nonstop punches, full force strikes, or add a second attacker from behind to force you to keep your balance while executing strikes/blocks and being hit/shoved in the back/head), followed by ten push-ups (different kind of push-up each class), then attacker and defender switch places. Sound reasonable? It's a hell of a lot of fun, anyway.

    I've noticed that a lot of people on this site (and on other MA forums) seem to really hate KFM for inadequate but understandable reasons (e.g., the promotional videos are genuinely retarded--ugh, that music, and the TAKE YOU THROUGH AN INCREDIBLE SPIRITUAL JOURNEY thing--and I won't even try to comment on the alleged JKD/FMA connection, because again, how would I know?). All I know is, this is a lot of fun, what I'm doing; people who have done MA for much longer than me are telling me the gym is kosher, and, contrary to what you might expect from the online criticism, it's absolutely nothing like a cult--it's all a workout from beginning to end, no bowing or anything like that, instructors are called by their first names, etc. Also, besides the membership fee ($145 a month for four months; $105 a month for a year--I'm doing the four month course), which I know is a bit steep but not insanely so, the only thing they ask you to buy is a $20 shirt (more advanced classes/sparring sessions require protective equipment, but you don't have to buy it from them). Of course, maybe the upper echelons are different--all I know is I'm enjoying myself and I can now guard effectively when someone sucker-punches me in the face.

    This is a major improvement over the last time I got into a fight, a couple years ago. That time, some pretty girls walked into a deli as me and my friend were leaving. We smiled at them and said hi, and then their guido boyfriends walked in. Then they followed us out into the parking lot. It was about 2 A.M., and I, um, how shall I say this, ah, got knocked down three times before I was able to throw a single punch. One thing I'm proud of--I got up every time, despite getting stomped, having my head smashed into the asphalt repeatedly, and literally having my shoe beaten off me--don't ask me how that happened, but after someone yelled "The cops are coming!" and the guys ran away, leaving me on the floor and my friend (the aforementioned golden gloves boxer, who actually did pretty well; didn't go down once, though he was drunk as hell and there were three guys hitting him, and he punched the crap out of one guy's kidney when he tried for a headlock--I remember that dude saying "Haha, you think that hurts? You fight like a bitch, man! You think that hurts me? You think that hu--AAAH GET HIM OFF ME GET HIM OFF ME") leaning against a wall, I realized my shoe was missing. It was a nice shoe, brown leather; I wish I still had that shoe.

    Uh, you may have noticed I have a tendency to write awful run-on sentences. Sorry about that. But, anyway, hello Bullshido! Nice to meet you. I'm going to take a shower now.

  2. #2
    slamdunc's Avatar
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    Welcome to Bullshido. Enjoy your shower. I know hardly anything about Keysi, but there are threads on this forum. Try the search function and enjoy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    You can not intellectualize your way to being a competent fighter.

  3. #3

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    Welcome comrade

    Do you have videos of your academy?
    Sorry about the street fight do you have scarrs from that?
    Good to hear that you enjoy your training!

  4. #4
    battlefields's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know what to say, you're a beginner who has looked at a wide variety of experienced martial artists saying KFM sucks, but because people who do KFM said it is good, you took it up? It never occurred to you that people doing an art have something invested in it?

    Also, your anecdote does nothing to instil confidence in me that you have made a good choice of MA, don't know why it does with you, considering your mate who does/did boxing fared much better than you.

    Welcome to Bullshido, anyway.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    I <3 Battlefields...

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by RurikGreenwulf View Post
    Welcome comrade

    Do you have videos of your academy?
    Sorry about the street fight do you have scarrs from that?
    Good to hear that you enjoy your training!
    No scars or videos, of the place I'm going, I'm afraid, but we've been doing drills similar to what you'll find on Youtube under "KFM training part 1" (sorry, this site's not letting me post links yet) while standing, only more punches and blocks, less elbows, and no hammerfists. I assume later on other stuff comes into the picture. And yeah, I've heard hammerfists aren't that useful, but it kind of makes sense from the guard position.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields
    I don't know what to say, you're a beginner who has looked at a wide variety of experienced martial artists saying KFM sucks, but because people who do KFM said it is good, you took it up? It never occurred to you that people doing an art have something invested in it?

    Also, your anecdote does nothing to instil confidence in me that you have made a good choice of MA, don't know why it does with you, considering your mate who does/did boxing fared much better than you.

    Welcome to Bullshido, anyway.
    Hi battlefields! Nice to hear from you. I don't think you read my post very carefully. I admit that it was pretty long, but I'd expect an experienced martial artist like yourself to pay attention to detail. Perhaps you're a speedreading blackbelt having an off day. What I said was that a wide variety of internet posters like yourself, specifically internet posters with no knowledge of KFM aside from terrible promo videos, have said KFM sucks, while a wide variety of people on and off the internet with some knowledge of KFM (but more knowledge of other martial arts, specifically BJJ, JKD and Muay Thai) have said that it's good, or at least not bad--and as I'm a beginner and the gym's really close to my house, that's good enough for me to give it a few months. I'm not sure why you'd jump to the assumption that anyone trashing an art is an "experienced martial artist" worth listening to (but anyone who likes a little-known system is brainwashed--if I read you correctly), but I did consider that people who specialize in Keysi might be biased, so I made sure to find a lot of comments from people who specialized in JKD, BJJ and FMA saying that the style had worthwhile components. I've been led to understand that what matters most, assuming a style's not total crap, is the effort you put into training and the "aliveness" of your instruction, but I could be wrong about that. If you have any information that indicates it's a bad art to study that DOESN'T come from looking at the three or four promotional videos playing on Batman for marketing purposes, please let me know, because everything I've found from experienced people who have actually seen or participated in KFM seems to amount to either "I like it" or "Eh, it's not for me, but it's pretty good if you find a decent gym." Off the top of my head, I know I've read BJJ guys' comments that KFM's groundwork is solid and boxers' comments that the stand-up aspect is exceptionally solid. As for my anecdote, I don't know that it was meant to inspire confidence (and I'm not sure why you think I said anything to that effect); it's more a dumb story and part of the reason I'm interested in studying martial arts. From what I've gathered from reading accounts by "experienced martial artists," KFM combines elements of Crazy Monkey boxing, JKD, and escrima, and if there's anything truly bad about it it's that whoever's in charge of marketing doesn't give enough credit to JKD/FMA influence (in fact, a lot of people seem to think that KFM is just repackaged JKD with a Crazy Monkey guard--as an experienced martial artist, would you say JKD is worth studying? There's no JKD gym near me, unfortunately, but maybe, just maybe, if I study something similar for a few months I'll learn some skills that might translate to a "real" martial art. What do you think, battlefields?

    Edit: Ah, wait! Now I see where you got that "instils confidence" bit from. It's because I said "this is a major improvement over the last time." That was just a statement of fact--regardless of the efficacy of KFM versus the invincible lethality of, oh, I don't know, BJJ and Muay Thai, the fact is I'm not looking to get into cage matches. On the other hand, I am looking to know what to do when someone throws a punch at my face, because last time that happened I got hit in the face, a lot. And after just a few weeks of KFM, I can block a lot of punches to my face! In fact, that's what we've been spending lots of our time doing in class--getting hit in the face, hard, from different angles. So far it seems to be working, because when people hit me in the face now, I'm able to block it. I'm enjoying it.
    Last edited by Anti-Oedipus; 9/14/2012 5:40am at .

  6. #6
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Glad to hear you're enjoying training. I'm a JKD instructor who's gotten to play a bit with some of the Keysi stuff. I like the pad drills. I think Keysi functionalizes a lot of the old, static JKD trapping drills in a way that many JKD instructors had already been doing. Some of it works for me, some of it doesn't.

    Personally, I wish I had the funds & PR department to put together some videos like KFM. I would look dead sexay in them.

  7. #7
    jnp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Oedipus View Post
    No scars or videos, of the place I'm going, I'm afraid, but we've been doing drills similar to what you'll find on Youtube under "KFM training part 1" (sorry, this site's not letting me post links yet) while standing, only more punches and blocks, less elbows, and no hammerfists. I assume later on other stuff comes into the picture. And yeah, I've heard hammerfists aren't that useful, but it kind of makes sense from the guard position.



    Hi battlefields! Nice to hear from you. I don't think you read my post very carefully. I admit that it was pretty long, but I'd expect an experienced martial artist like yourself to pay attention to detail. Perhaps you're a speedreading blackbelt having an off day. What I said was that a wide variety of internet posters like yourself, specifically internet posters with no knowledge of KFM aside from terrible promo videos, have said KFM sucks, while a wide variety of people on and off the internet with some knowledge of KFM (but more knowledge of other martial arts, specifically BJJ, JKD and Muay Thai) have said that it's good, or at least not bad--and as I'm a beginner and the gym's really close to my house, that's good enough for me to give it a few months.

    I'm not sure why you'd jump to the assumption that anyone trashing an art is an "experienced martial artist" worth listening to (but anyone who likes a little-known system is brainwashed--if I read you correctly), but I did consider that people who specialize in Keysi might be biased, so I made sure to find a lot of comments from people who specialized in JKD, BJJ and FMA saying that the style had worthwhile components.

    I've been led to understand that what matters most, assuming a style's not total crap, is the effort you put into training and the "aliveness" of your instruction, but I could be wrong about that. If you have any information that indicates it's a bad art to study that DOESN'T come from looking at the three or four promotional videos playing on Batman for marketing purposes, please let me know, because everything I've found from experienced people who have actually seen or participated in KFM seems to amount to either "I like it" or "Eh, it's not for me, but it's pretty good if you find a decent gym."

    Off the top of my head, I know I've read BJJ guys' comments that KFM's groundwork is solid and boxers' comments that the stand-up aspect is exceptionally solid. As for my anecdote, I don't know that it was meant to inspire confidence (and I'm not sure why you think I said anything to that effect); it's more a dumb story and part of the reason I'm interested in studying martial arts. From what I've gathered from reading accounts by "experienced martial artists," KFM combines elements of Crazy Monkey boxing, JKD, and escrima, and if there's anything truly bad about it it's that whoever's in charge of marketing doesn't give enough credit to JKD/FMA influence (in fact, a lot of people seem to think that KFM is just repackaged JKD with a Crazy Monkey guard--as an experienced martial artist, would you say JKD is worth studying?

    There's no JKD gym near me, unfortunately, but maybe, just maybe, if I study something similar for a few months I'll learn some skills that might translate to a "real" martial art. What do you think, battlefields?

    Edit: Ah, wait! Now I see where you got that "instils confidence" bit from. It's because I said "this is a major improvement over the last time." That was just a statement of fact--regardless of the efficacy of KFM versus the invincible lethality of, oh, I don't know, BJJ and Muay Thai, the fact is I'm not looking to get into cage matches. On the other hand, I am looking to know what to do when someone throws a punch at my face, because last time that happened I got hit in the face, a lot. And after just a few weeks of KFM, I can block a lot of punches to my face! In fact, that's what we've been spending lots of our time doing in class--getting hit in the face, hard, from different angles. So far it seems to be working, because when people hit me in the face now, I'm able to block it. I'm enjoying it.
    Anti-Oedipus, please note how much easier this is to read. You'll find people understand your point much easier if you make use of paragraphs. Walls of text tend to lead to misunderstandings.

    Welcome to Bullshido.
    Shut the hell up and train.

  8. #8
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Oedipus View Post
    No scars or videos, of the place I'm going, I'm afraid, but we've been doing drills similar to what you'll find on Youtube under "KFM training part 1" (sorry, this site's not letting me post links yet) while standing, only more punches and blocks, less elbows, and no hammerfists. I assume later on other stuff comes into the picture. And yeah, I've heard hammerfists aren't that useful, but it kind of makes sense from the guard position.



    Hi battlefields! Nice to hear from you. I don't think you read my post very carefully. I admit that it was pretty long, but I'd expect an experienced martial artist like yourself to pay attention to detail. Perhaps you're a speedreading blackbelt having an off day. What I said was that a wide variety of internet posters like yourself, specifically internet posters with no knowledge of KFM aside from terrible promo videos, have said KFM sucks, while a wide variety of people on and off the internet with some knowledge of KFM (but more knowledge of other martial arts, specifically BJJ, JKD and Muay Thai) have said that it's good, or at least not bad--and as I'm a beginner and the gym's really close to my house, that's good enough for me to give it a few months. I'm not sure why you'd jump to the assumption that anyone trashing an art is an "experienced martial artist" worth listening to (but anyone who likes a little-known system is brainwashed--if I read you correctly), but I did consider that people who specialize in Keysi might be biased, so I made sure to find a lot of comments from people who specialized in JKD, BJJ and FMA saying that the style had worthwhile components. I've been led to understand that what matters most, assuming a style's not total crap, is the effort you put into training and the "aliveness" of your instruction, but I could be wrong about that. If you have any information that indicates it's a bad art to study that DOESN'T come from looking at the three or four promotional videos playing on Batman for marketing purposes, please let me know, because everything I've found from experienced people who have actually seen or participated in KFM seems to amount to either "I like it" or "Eh, it's not for me, but it's pretty good if you find a decent gym." Off the top of my head, I know I've read BJJ guys' comments that KFM's groundwork is solid and boxers' comments that the stand-up aspect is exceptionally solid. As for my anecdote, I don't know that it was meant to inspire confidence (and I'm not sure why you think I said anything to that effect); it's more a dumb story and part of the reason I'm interested in studying martial arts. From what I've gathered from reading accounts by "experienced martial artists," KFM combines elements of Crazy Monkey boxing, JKD, and escrima, and if there's anything truly bad about it it's that whoever's in charge of marketing doesn't give enough credit to JKD/FMA influence (in fact, a lot of people seem to think that KFM is just repackaged JKD with a Crazy Monkey guard--as an experienced martial artist, would you say JKD is worth studying? There's no JKD gym near me, unfortunately, but maybe, just maybe, if I study something similar for a few months I'll learn some skills that might translate to a "real" martial art. What do you think, battlefields?

    Edit: Ah, wait! Now I see where you got that "instils confidence" bit from. It's because I said "this is a major improvement over the last time." That was just a statement of fact--regardless of the efficacy of KFM versus the invincible lethality of, oh, I don't know, BJJ and Muay Thai, the fact is I'm not looking to get into cage matches. On the other hand, I am looking to know what to do when someone throws a punch at my face, because last time that happened I got hit in the face, a lot. And after just a few weeks of KFM, I can block a lot of punches to my face! In fact, that's what we've been spending lots of our time doing in class--getting hit in the face, hard, from different angles. So far it seems to be working, because when people hit me in the face now, I'm able to block it. I'm enjoying it.
    I hope you have a thick skin. Your lack of paragraphs and not so subtle jabs at styles not named are going to lead to much YMAS fun.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Anti-Oedipus, please note how much easier this is to read. You'll find people understand your point much easier if you make use of paragraphs. Walls of text tend to lead to misunderstandings.

    Welcome to Bullshido.
    You're absolutely right. I'd been up all night when I wrote that post, and I was clearly drunk or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    I hope you have a thick skin. Your lack of paragraphs and not so subtle jabs at styles not named are going to lead to much YMAS fun.
    My skin's ok, like I said in the OP, I'm here for you to mock, ignore, whatever. The paragraphs note is well taken--I was never all that much of an athlete, but I am a fast typer, and I often forget what these walls of text look like from the other side of the six-line-deep box I'm typing into. Sorry about that. As for jabs at styles not named, though, I'm not sure where you're getting that--sure, I was making fun of battlefields "I'm not sure what to say... experienced martial artists" when I mentioned BJJ and Muay Thai, because they're under his avatar, but it's not that I'd dare criticize a demonstrably effective style (I haven't criticized any style, subtly or otherwise) as a beginner--in fact, I was originally planning to study BJJ or MT, until I found a closer KFM gym. Making fun of somebody for being a dick is another thing (I'm sure battlefields could tie me in knots/kick my head off, for the record).

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