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  1. #51
    Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    I think the point he was trying to make is that people who normally oppose religious extremism are giving a pass to these groups. Don't know if I agree.
    I certainly don't. There are a significant minority of people (fortunately growing all the time) who think all religion is either dangerous, or has the potential to be dangerous because of its disregard for reason. The 'pass' that bnet is referring to is no greater in degree to the 'pass' that those same people are giving the Christianity that is ubiquitous in the US, it's just that THAT 'pass' is being taken for granted.

  2. #52
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    By extension - you should look to your own (USA) religious bullshit. Clamping down on Islam would mean clamping down on all religions - and it's the far right who are religious, not the far left.
    Uh, no.

    The First Amendment means you have the right to express your religious beliefs.

    When you blow up a car with an RPG, we don't distinguish between if Allah or Mao or Dexter told you to do it.

    We just call it murder.

    We clamp down on murder, not on religious expression.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    This is actually where I think the discussion gets interesting. Let's talk about Christianity and liberalism/conservatism. I'm of the opinion that individuals and societies should make decisions based on logic and science. Decision making should be free of religious influence.

    Here's the problem. In western society, you don't get that from either side. Christianity is so deeply ingrained that it shapes the belief systems of people on both sides - even those who outwardly reject religion in all forms.

    Christianity is a religion of the weak. It was created by the weak. Turn the other cheek, reject the need for worldy riches, sacrifice for your fellow man, etc. All basic tenets of early Christianity. Ironically, these tenets attracted other weak people, made it seem righteous to essentially be weak, and ultimately empowered the weak through sheer numbers.

    So, for a couple thousand years Christianity has dominated western society. You're right - conservatives are more likely to embrace and acknowledge Christianity's influence in their lives at this point. But in my opinion, it's the hippie liberals who actually operate under the values of Christianity to a greater extent at this point.

    They may be atheists, but their sense of right and wrong has been passed down to them through the generations and it all revolves around Christian values. This is why I have such a problem with liberalism. They piss me off for the same reasons religious zealots piss me off. They're motivated by emotion and lifetimes of being told what's right and wrong based on Christian ideals. They don't operate based on logic.

    Survival in this world depends on a proper balance of intelligence and aggression. You can't be so aggressive that you position yourself to face more turmoil than you can overcome. But you also can't intellectualize things to the point that you fail to act with aggression when it's in your best interest to do so.
    Wow you are on a roll today, when did you get all philosophical?? Is this one of the signs?? Great now I have to stock up on water.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    This is actually where I think the discussion gets interesting. Let's talk about Christianity and liberalism/conservatism. I'm of the opinion that individuals and societies should make decisions based on logic and science. Decision making should be free of religious influence.

    Here's the problem. In western society, you don't get that from either side. Christianity is so deeply ingrained that it shapes the belief systems of people on both sides - even those who outwardly reject religion in all forms.

    Christianity is a religion of the weak. It was created by the weak. Turn the other cheek, reject the need for worldy riches, sacrifice for your fellow man, etc. All basic tenets of early Christianity. Ironically, these tenets attracted other weak people, made it seem righteous to essentially be weak, and ultimately empowered the weak through sheer numbers.

    So, for a couple thousand years Christianity has dominated western society. You're right - conservatives are more likely to embrace and acknowledge Christianity's influence in their lives at this point. But in my opinion, it's the hippie liberals who actually operate under the values of Christianity to a greater extent at this point.

    They may be atheists, but their sense of right and wrong has been passed down to them through the generations and it all revolves around Christian values. This is why I have such a problem with liberalism. They piss me off for the same reasons religious zealots piss me off. They're motivated by emotion and lifetimes of being told what's right and wrong based on Christian ideals. They don't operate based on logic.

    Survival in this world depends on a proper balance of intelligence and aggression. You can't be so aggressive that you position yourself to face more turmoil than you can overcome. But you also can't intellectualize things to the point that you fail to act with aggression when it's in your best interest to do so.
    So you can't be brought up on blasphemy charges and I somehow can manage not to riot over your statements. Curious.

  5. #55
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    Devil is slipping; more spittle, bile and hyperbole please.

  6. #56
    Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    The First Amendment means you have the right to express your religious beliefs.
    If expressing your religious beliefs means murdering someone for apostasy, then we have a problem.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    What an odd dichotomy we've constructed.

    My mom who lives in NYC, has been thrown out of a Halal market for speaking Danish to her sister,
    "What language are you speaking? Danish? You guys hate Muslims, you should leave now..."
    and a Kosher establishment for
    "You're not Jewish, are you? What are you doing in here then? You should get out."

    She has yet to be thrown out of a Chik-Fil-A (to be fair i don't think she eats there), but there's still time i guess.
    From which "kosher Jewish establishment" was she kicked out from? since when jews decline paying costumers? does not compute.

  8. #58
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Devil is slipping; more spittle, bile and hyperbole please.
    I've been listening to classical music instead of metal lately. Maybe that's it.

  9. #59

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    I know I may get some degree of hate for this, but I would be ok with the outlawing of all religion. As I said earlier I believe it borderlines on mental illness, and in alot of cases it crosses that border.

  10. #60
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    You lie, bigotry only applies to Americans, everyone else in the world is racially harmonious.
    You do not know the irony in this statement do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    I know I may get some degree of hate for this, but I would be ok with the outlawing of all religion. As I said earlier I believe it borderlines on mental illness, and in alot of cases it crosses that border.
    While we are at it let's outlaw all racism....

    Yes, what you said sounds that stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    I know I may get some degree of hate for this, but I would be ok with the outlawing of all racism. As I said earlier I believe it borderlines on mental illness, and in alot of cases it crosses that border.
    Yep simple to say, impossible to implement and prove.

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