Violence vs free speech

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 9/19/2012 12:46pm

Originally Posted by Bodhi108

Do not make me get Fake to get semantical on you.

**Vince Tortelli** · Posted On: 9/19/2012 12:48pm

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

Nope. But I can now make my point that you have trouble reading.

It is true that a lot of the Founder's issues with secular/spirtual power sitting on the same throne came from what they'd seen of the Church of England, which was split from the Catholic Church when Henry VIII decided he'd make a better head of religious power than Il Papa in Rome. And of course he and those who came after him did not at all abuse their new power over Heaven and London to the point that many colonists in the New World (Quakers, Puritans, etc.) had fled across the ocean to practice their religion without the Crown leering ominously over their shoulder, putting a severe damper on their wearing of buckle hats and torturing suspected witches.

So yeah, the Founders had many good reasons to be suspicous of an "ecclesiarchal" state.

But that takes too long to type out and it's more fun (for me anyway) to point out we're putting guys on pedestals who bought Africans like cattle and hunted Native Americans like squirrels. Plus, dueling.

**mike321** · Posted On: 9/19/2012 1:10pm

Originally Posted by Vince Tortelli

But that takes too long to type out and it's more fun (for me anyway) to point out we're putting guys on pedestals who bought Africans like cattle and hunted Native Americans like squirrels. Plus, dueling.

The pedestal is for the system they created not their behavior. The biggest endorsement of the system is the number of oppressed people who wanted IN to the system instead of away from it. (I know there were those who just wanted to away from these guys, the point still stands.)

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 9/19/2012 3:02pm

Originally Posted by mike321

Southpaw stated that Freemasons have supported religious freedom and you responded: UNLESS.

My comments indicate I don't recall any persecution or mandate to believe from this group so I don't see how the freemasons don't support religious freedom. That is what I am asking a citation for. Any form of exception to religious freedom on the part of Freemasons. You may be right, that's why I ask.

WTF broke in your head? For the last few days, you have been reading sarcasm as literal truth.

**Styygens** · Posted On: 9/19/2012 3:16pm

Originally Posted by Bodhi108

Yeah, that's a whole two of them, with your own cherry-picked quotes, compared to numerous quotes from others, several of whom were ministers or had theological backgrounds, countless of letters from George Washington extoling Christian teaching & virtue, and all of Jefferson's writing earlier in life when he was much more faithful.

So when some idiot like you gets his ass in a rut over how the Founders weren't Christian, you're being just as bumfucking stupid as the Christian idiots who insist America was founded as a Christian nation. In short, shut the **** up.

What? You mean to tell me that history is messy? That people can be self-contradictory? Or that they might change their opinions and beliefs over time? That things aren't tied up in neat little packages that teachers in later generations can deliver quickly and concisely in a survey course?

**mike321** · Posted On: 9/19/2012 3:19pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

WTF broke in your head? For the last few days, you have been reading sarcasm as literal truth.

My sarcasm meter may be off, just assumed he was complaint about tolerance for atheism fro
Freemasons.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 9/19/2012 3:42pm

Originally Posted by Styygens

What? You mean to tell me that history is messy? That people can be self-contradictory? Or that they might change their opinions and beliefs over time? That things aren't tied up in neat little packages that teachers in later generations can deliver quickly and concisely in a survey course?

Fear the Lutheran ninjas.

Or you may get pinned to a door with shuriken.