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  1. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Land, shiny things and religion have caused wars for centuries.
    For politicians, yes. For individuals, no - very few wars are popularly supported on the grounds of "they have something we don't." In this case, the tempting excesses of consumerism could dull the deadly edge of radical Islam. According to Old Testament Christian doctrine, clothing made of two materials is forbidden to wear. But since Americans like to wear polyester, they simply avoid the subject. Exceptions made for convenience naturally grow. Clothing choice in the United States has certainly changed over the past hundred years, becoming less conservative in no small part thanks to the advertising industry.

    I'm not saying consumerism is intrinsically bad or good. I'm simply stating that is useful in corroding the more outdated (and more dangerous) aspects of religion. It will force itself into their culture and make killing us all seem somewhat silly.

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    You know, we wouldn't have to deal with Muslims burning down American embassies crying "death to America" if we had no presence in their country. I'm not victim-blaming - I'm just saying there's a very simple solution.

    These people aren't worth it. They don't want us there and they're killing those we send to help them. Carrying on is meaningless.
    Well it looks like we won't need the oil soon, and we are strong enough to defend ourselves...works for me.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Morocco was the first country to recognize the US
    It was also a base ground for the first terrorist attacks on American citizens...well before George W. Bush.

    Here

  4. #164
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    According to Old Testament Christian doctrine, clothing made of two materials is forbidden to wear.
    No, that's Jewish doctrine. It was at no point Christian doctrine. You may want to read up on your theology before you speak. And by read up on theology, I don't mean read **** written by athiests.

  5. #165
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    For politicians, yes. For individuals, no - very few wars are popularly supported on the grounds of "they have something we don't."
    In other words, if we remove the fallaciously moving goal posts, you agreed with my statement.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 9/14/2012 7:57pm at .

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    I'm not saying consumerism is intrinsically bad or good. I'm simply stating that is useful in corroding the more outdated (and more dangerous) aspects of religion. It will force itself into their culture and make killing us all seem somewhat silly.
    I think a fair argument can be made that consumerism is one of the reasons we are in the middle east at all; and that (western) consumerism along with all it brings is a big part of what certain groups over there are trying to fight against.

  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    It was also a base ground for the first terrorist attacks on American citizens...well before George W. Bush.

    Here
    True. It is also interesting to note the US was not a world power at the time.

  8. #168

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    [Clinton said the rage and violence aimed at American missions was prompted by "an awful Internet video that we had nothing to do with."]

    US officials act like they HAVE to mention how bad it is when talking about the movie. Also, it is speech they have no right to stop. It would be nice if they mentioned that critical point.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_1884567.html

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    No, that's Jewish doctrine. It was at no point Christian doctrine. You may want to read up on your theology before you speak. And by read up on theology, I don't mean read **** written by athiests.
    I think it's funny that Christians seem to think no atheists have understood the Christian perspective. I was raised in a very conservative Baptist family and have read the Bible all the way through on multiple occasions. I found no verse that completely overturned the Old Testament. Yes, Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17 NIV). Yet the Apostle Paul upheld the Law. His dream in Acts 10:9-23 relieved him of food restrictions, but nothing else was addressed. It's possible that I've missed something, since it's been a year or two since I've read the Bible, but as far as I know, arguments contrary to the Old Testament have been interpretations and reformations. If I'm wrong, let me know - I'd rather not wallow in ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    In other words, if we remove the fallaciously moving goal posts, you agreed with my statement.
    I completely agree with your statement. It's just beside the point. My point was that when Muslims' love of possessions overcomes their faithfulness, their religion will cease to be a threat. Your argument was that the love of possessions causes wars. That's true - it does - but that has nothing to do with the danger of Middle Eastern Muslims. The love of possessions causes politicians to wage war, but politicians aren't strapping bombs to their chests in Allah's name, so that's irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    I think a fair argument can be made that consumerism is one of the reasons we are in the middle east at all; and that (western) consumerism along with all it brings is a big part of what certain groups over there are trying to fight against.
    A good point, and very well made. But the United States never forced the debauchery of western consumerism on the Middle East. It is impossible to claim that radical Muslims fight justly to preserve their way of life when no one is taking it away. In this new age of communication, new ideas are being spread - by example. Intellectual coercion is an impossibility; a gun is not an argument. Consumerism is creeping into the Middle East on the wings of progress, not on the chassis of an American Humvee. Yes, consumerism is a major reason we maintain a presence in the Middle East (namely for their oil), and that's wrong. But the U.S. military is only there because the Middle East won't play ball. I'm not saying it's right - it certainly isn't - but those are the facts. The USA wouldn't be trying so hard to take the oil if the Middle East would play the game of consumerism with them. When consumerism beats radical Islam, we won't have these problems any longer. (Not that we should have had these problems in the first place. Once again, I think US involvement in Middle Eastern matters is imperious and ill-advised.)

  10. #170
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliada View Post
    Islam is no more dangerous than Christianity or Judaism, doctrine-wise
    Let's see....Divide by seven.....Carry the one.....Multiply by Pi.......
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